Intro To Tele

[bignslow]

I'm new to tele so I have a few questions:

First let me explain my motivation and gear:
I snowboarded since High School (10+ years)
Recently I started alpine skiing (2 years)
Just last year I took my first tele lesson

I'm just starting to get into backcountry skiing, I have a splitboard (which is far from optimal for the backcountry).

My boots are Garmont Syner-G
Bindings are Black Diamond O2
Skis are older spaghetti soft solomon ten-eighties 179 cm

I'm 250 lb, 6'0"

For my first question you need to look at the attachment for me to describe my tele turn:

Right now I do this
1) Left foot forward, right back
2) Switch to right foot forward
3) Make turn
3.5) Ski across slope right foot forward, left back
4) switch to left foot forward
5) Make turn

I watched some videos that suggested I should be doing it more like this
1) Left forward, right back
2) Stay in stance start initiating turn
3) while at the apex of the turn (down the fall line) switch skis
3.5) Right forward, left back
4) Stay in stance, initiate turn
5) while at the apex of the turn (down the fall line) switch skis

Which is the correct way.

Second Question:
Is there anything specific I should be doing so I don't destroy my knees in a fall?

Third Question:
What is the best way to get started in the backcountry. I'm a very good snowboarder, but terrible at tele, so where can I find some lower angle skiing to be done.

Any other suggestions or comments anyone has for people learning tele would be appreciated

 

[MindlessMariachi]

I think it looks like you're doing it correctly. I'm trying to visualize tele skiing based on your lists as I sit bleary eyed at a computer, but I believe you will find that as you get better and start skiing more aggressively, your turns will look a bit more like your second list. But even then, sometimes you'll take it easier and do like your first list.

There are all sorts of ways to think about the turn; some folks say they push the one foot forward, while others claim they pull the other back. Some think about having them meet in the middle. Others claim they think about this differently depending on terrain. Others just .... ski, which, if you're actually getting down the hill with your turns more or less linked together (and it suonds like you are) is probably where you want to be right now.

As for some entry level skinning terrain, Mt. Cardigan can be a lot of fun and isn't that difficult. And there's the Sherburne Trail near Pinkham Notch. Or you can skin up the abandoned Mittersill resort on the backside of Cannon Mountain (though I'm not sure how much longer that will last now that Cannon's taking it over.)

 

[--M.]

I can help with Question 3:

Your local state park; Wachusett; Greylock; Tripoli Road; Sandwich Mountain Road. Search the site; this has been covered before.

Personally, I have both a state park near me and some rolling country out my back door. Very little of it offers enough grade for carving, but it's tremendous for learning how to ski down-hilly areas without edges (which teaches turning by weight-shift rather than grinding). I've really enjoyed cranking those skinny rock skis across the terrain this last month. Building muscle; relearning Newtonian physics.

Good luck on the technique!

 

[MindlessMariachi]

Oh - and don't worry about your knees. They'll take care of themselves. I believe the knee danger in tele skiing is exaggerated. Because your ski is only fixed to your foot at the toe, it can actually get into any number of positions on even the most spectacular fall, without shredding your knee (unlike what would happen if you fell on your alpines and it didn't release). That said, there are releaseable bindings on the market if you're really worried about it.

 

[DougPaul]

Oh - and don't worry about your knees. They'll take care of themselves. I believe the knee danger in tele skiing is exaggerated. Because your ski is only fixed to your foot at the toe, it can actually get into any number of positions on even the most spectacular fall, without shredding your knee (unlike what would happen if you fell on your alpines and it didn't release). That said, there are releaseable bindings on the market if you're really worried about it.

I manged to break my femur just above the knee and hip (femoral neck) while using BC skis, 3-pin bindings, and leather boots. I'm sure one can do as much or more with tele gear.

Yes, tele skis are less dangerous than (unreleased) alpine, but they certainly aren't injury proof. There is a very nice telemark injury study at http://faculty.washington.edu/mtuggy/telepag1.htm. It also includes a short video showing some very nice tele turns.


Bignslow:
You might find "Free-Heel Skiing: Telemark and Parallel Techniques" by Paul Parker worth a read.

Telemarktips.com also has some on-line lessons: http://telemarktips.com/Lesson.htm

Doug

 

[michaelb]

I am not really qualified to give tele advice. I do read telemark tips since that is where the experts are going to be (although if you asked this there, they would say to take some lessons, which is really good advice, since it is unlikely you are going to teach yourself with some help).

In any case, I tend to think of it as a fluid motion, so you probably do want to be coming around to the fall line as you switch ski edges. Whether I do that or not successfully depends on how steep and icy the slope is.

However, your question makes me think that you are steering around the corner on your front ski. This is a bad habit, although classic and easy to do and certainly something I did since I was self taught back in the days of leather boots. Instead, of focusing on your front ski, work on pressuring the rear ski, almost as much as possible. You want your weight balance 50/50, and to do that I find have to focus on getting weight on the rear ski as much as possible.

I am not entirely sure I have the slang right, but I am worried you may be poodling or fake-a-marking:

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4438&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[David Metsky]

Which is the correct way.

There is no single correct way. What you are describing in your second list is something called delayed lead change. It can be a very useful teaching tool to get people to weight their skis correctly, and can be used as another tool in your quiver in difficult snow conditions but it isn't the right or the only way to turn. It's hard to detect and correct further without at least some video.

Is there anything specific I should be doing so I don't destroy my knees in a fall?

Releasable bindings would be a good start; kneepads as well.

What is the best way to get started in the backcountry. I'm a very good snowboarder, but terrible at tele, so where can I find some lower angle skiing to be done.

Do you want to ski for turns or for touring? There are nice places to ski everywhere you look. Closed down ski areas (www.nelsap.com) are great, Cardigan, Greeley Ponds, the ski trails off Bear Notch and near Pinkham.

 

[skiguy]

Ski with other people who Tele too. There is alot of technical reading and videos out there, Paul's book IMO being one of the best reads and NATO having some of the best Videos. Also Dave Metsky spelled with a "S" and not a "Z" is also hooked up with a Tele Fest learning program that he could probably provide you with a link to. All in all you've got to get out there and do it. Being with other folks that have been doing the sport for awhile can be a big help. As Dave already mentioned ther is no single correct way as everyone developes a personal style which is what all the fun is about. I would definitely get Knee Pads especially if your going into the BC where it is easy to troll for rocks and roots. Have fun and let us know how it all goes.

 

[adktyler]

Ok, I'm only a XC skier, not Tele (yet), but I loved Mike and Allen's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book, and I bet that their other book: Mike and Allen's Really Cool Telemark Tips is pretty good as well.

 

[freedan]

Big toe, little toe, use ankles to tilt onto edges, hip angulation, knees and shoulders pointed downhill, no poodles, keep weight on both skis, hammer that rear foot, keep feet underneath you, speed is your friend, hands out front at waist level, get over the tips not backseat, don't be afraid of the pturn, monomark, fakamark etc. Just a turn not a religion. Rip! Got all that?

 

[TomD]

Like Michaelb, I belong to www.telemarktips.com. It is the best place for tele advice on the net that I know of. It has the beginner videos which DougPaul linked and a very active forum.

Beginners can get put off by some of the hard core members, but ignore that and you'll do fine. I just do a bit of backcountry skiing, but theoretically could tele on bunny hills on my set up. I bought what I have after asking on TTips.

btw, If your feet are so spread out, a poodle could run between your legs, you're poodling. Fake-a-mark is more like parallel skiing on a tele set up, or so I vaguely remember reading.

Releasable bindings? Look through the TTips archives. There are only a couple of brands and they don't work all that well compared to alpine bindings from what I have read. I have 3 pin Voile cable bindings mounted on the Voile release kit. Never needed it so far, so no idea if it works.

I've got both books recommended above and like both of them.

 

[cushetunk]

I think I ski the way you describe it in the first list. But, I don't think of those things as discreet events. I am switching leads and edges as I am making the turn. Sometimes I find thinking about the timing of the up and down motion is more useful than focusing on lead changes -- I think about lowering my weight down onto the inside edges of both skis as I am turning and lifting it off as I come out of the turn.

I'm not sure if that is helpful. Freedan pretty much covered it already.

 

[David Metsky]

I've released out of my bindings a few times - yes, they're worth it, IMO. They're also good in avy terrain when you want to separate from your skis in an emergency.

In addition to TeleTips, you can try http://www.telemarkeast.com/forums/ the New England Telemark forums. They have a bit less of an edge then teletips but they are smaller.

 

[cushetunk]

Oh and I should add that I totally reaffirmed my belief in kneepads after watching a friend of mine ski his knee at high speed into a fallen log hidden under the snow. Nice loud "crack!" Knee was entirely undamaged.

I'm sure it would have been a fascinating evacuation without the kneepads.

 

[bignslow]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, it has been quite helpful