Presi Traverse

[GeorgeFitch]

I guess it all depends on what is meant by fast and light. If fast and light means nothing but track shorts and running shoes, that's a little too light for me in the Presidentials. But a small day pack with a wind and water proof shell, a wool sweater or fleece, and some water and snacks and maybe a headlamp is never a bad idea. It doesn't weigh much and could easily make the difference between a comfortable hike and a miserable one.

But what do I know? When I did a Presi Traverse I went from South to North!

 

[beverly]

Yeah,

...what George said. We did a North to South traverse last June 20th. The day before was the Mt. Washington Run and they had horrible weather. The forecast for the 20th was generally good - but I had a lot of trepidation because I had organized the trip (my hiking grounds are the ADKs) and was extremely wary about the weather.

My sole experience with the Whites up until then was a three day hut-to-hut hike in September of 2004, where I experienced only glorious weather and 100-mile visibilty. Something told me that isn't the normal weather pattern.

As a matter of fact, I read Not Without Peril on that trip. I have a strange habit of reading disaster stories about the hike I am on when I am hiking it!

By the time we got up to Madison Hut the winds were howling. The report from the top of Mt. Washington was that there could be 90-100mph winds. My heart sank, because I thought that would mean the end of our traverse. We pushed on, did Madison and hung out for a bit at the Hut. Adams was covered in rime ice, but at the top we could see that the ceiling seemed to be lifting on the top of Washinton - even if it did look all iced up and foreboding.
The weather kept improving with every step and the wind diminished to manageable levels. We were rewarded with a great trip. We were bundled up in wind/rain gear and carried fleece, but were able to layer down as the day wore on.

It was such a great experience that we are determined to do it again (our usual solstice hike is the Great Range in the ADKs) next week. Keep your fingers crossed that the weather Gods look favorably upon us and permit us to succeed. Or not.

 

[Mike P.]

How light is too light? It's personal preference & needs to be weighed with the question, when is it time to bale? If you head down at the sign of the 1st cloud forming, you could probably wear track shorts & sneakers. If you are a little slow getting out, there may end up being 2 or 3 clouds.

If a less than fair day on the peaks sounds interesting or not scary enough to send you elsewhere, if it gets a little worse from there, you need more than sunscreen.

If being blown off your feet sounds like fun, you need a lot more gear & IMO maybe some professional help, or at least professional gear.

Which one of these describes you? we all fall between the two extremes, depending on where you fit should determine how much you bring

 

[Sherpa John]

While SJ does know the area well, the person who was asking the question, does not and may not be as fast a hiker as SJ either (probably few are). When traveling with a group, you need to be extra prepared, especially on a trip like this. This is not a Sunday stoll in the park.

There is a difference between traveling light and ultra light. Bring extra food, water, and layers (which SJ did not do) and know your escape routes. Ultralight is not the way to go on this one. Your life is worth more than a few ounces.

WOW.. how did you know what I had in my back ole wizard. Actually... I had a camelbak with full 3L bladder, Nalgene bottle with Gatorade, 2 PB &J sandwhiches, 2 hershey bars, 4 granola bars, 3 bags of yogurt covered raisins,a compass, whistle, 1st aid kit, headlamp, AMC Guide, Tyvek Map, Mirror, Waterproof strike anywhere matches, a SOLAR BLANKET, EMS Rain Suit, Long Sleeve Jacket and I wore my pants with the zip off legs so they become shorts AND packed a pair of Polarfleece Pants, winter hat and gloves. Looks like I had a lot of the essentials if not all of them, but thanks for inspecting my bag for me while I wasn't looking.

And with all of that.. my bag weighed no more than 5 lbs easily. Ultra Light... and Prepared. And as I do with EVERY hike I do ANYWHERE in the whites, I write down on a piece of paper... every single escape route in the event of a mishap or trouble.

 

[spaddock]

Great thread!

I've focussed on the ADK's the past couple of years since it's closer to home but last year on top of Mt. Washington I was wishing I had more time after gaining all that elevation!

Good luck "Structure" and enjoy the planning.


-Shayne

 

[Neil]

If being blown off your feet sounds like fun, you need a lot more gear & IMO maybe some professional help, or at least professional gear.

In the Adk's when the summit wind gets really bad we just clip into one of Colvin's surveying rings that are screwed deeply into the anorthosite.

 

[GeorgeFitch]

Just to add a little clarification to my post above.

I respect the potential dangers of hiking above treeline. I also respect the judgement of experienced hikers in special situations.

If I were to come across Tim Seaver or Sue Johnston wearing nothing but track shorts and running shoes (add sports bra or tank top where appropriate, or in Sherpa John's case, a bikini top ) I wouldn't think of second guessing them. I would figure that they know precisely what they are doing and that is more important than equipment.

A strong hiker can keep moving and descend if necessary. The people that get into trouble with hypothermia are the ones that get exhausted, sit down, and don't get up again.

 

[truepatriot09]

Nice comeback SJ. I agree, you can go light (or GoLite) without sacrificing essentials. I've begun cutting gear over the past year or so, seeing what I really need and what I don't. Next step is to evaluate my footwear, do I give up my clunky yet supportive hikers for something sleeker and faster?

 

[giggy]

Ok lets use a little common sense here - 95% of the folks doing the traverse are going to fall into 2 camps:

1) fast & light - use sherpa johns trip as an example - this still contains the basics emergency gear if stuff goes south.

2) bringing the kitchen sink - tent, bag, extra clothes, etc...

yes - your going to get your tim seavers as well (ultralight) - but these folks are in the minority and know what they are doing.

- I think it is safe to say most folks doing the traverse are not in sneakers, running shorts and have no extra gear.

I will go out on a limb here and say most don't do the travserse as an intro to the presidentials and have some time above treeline as well as some good tim logged in the hills.

If we use these parameters - I think on a late spring or summer traverse with good forecasted weather & route knowledge. (yes - we know it can change - hence the wind/rain shells in the pack) - light and fast is the way to do it in 10-15 hours - assuming you have the skills & endurance to get yourself from appalachia to 302.

 

[robohiker]

Robohiker is confused. How can this:

"...a camelbak with full 3L bladder, Nalgene bottle with Gatorade, 2 PB &J sandwhiches, 2 hershey bars, 4 granola bars, 3 bags of yogurt covered raisins,a compass, whistle, 1st aid kit, headlamp, AMC Guide, Tyvek Map, Mirror, Waterproof strike anywhere matches, a SOLAR BLANKET, EMS Rain Suit, Long Sleeve Jacket...

And with all of that.. my bag weighed no more than 5 lbs easily."
weigh only 5 lbs? Would not the fluids alone be 8 lbs?
Thankfully, Robo never has to worry about fluids. A little oiling now & then but dehydration is never an issue

 

[Double Bow]

WOW.. how did you know what I had in my back ole wizard. ... Looks like I had a lot of the essentials if not all of them, but thanks for inspecting my bag for me while I wasn't looking.

I know I shouldn't even respond but...

I knew what you were carrying because of what you said had said earlier. With what you changed your story to say you were carrying, your supposed pack weight makes no sense. As robo pointed out, your liquids alone would have been eight pounds. Try to develop a little more consistancy in what you are saying and drop the verbal temper tantrums and maybe people will take you a little more seriously.

I was just trying to help someone who asked for advice to travel safely, not anger the mighty Sherpa John . In fact, if you look back at what I wrote, I actually paid complement to your speed and knowledge of the area. There was no need for a "comeback".

Hopefully, after you've soaked your head in some cold water you can look back at this thread and see that all I was doing was offering sound advice that echos what everyone says. I never said that you need to bring a tent or that you can't go light. I said that a beginner attempting this trip should not go ULTRALIGHT.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[giggy]

gotta reply one more time

I think we are all on the same page here - just using some different terminology.

we are all freinds for sure - I think sherpa john was just goofing around with you double bow - I doubt any harm was meant.

we need a new thread - " just what was in SJ's pack?? (that was a joke)

 

[Jim lombard]

Posted by Sherpa John

a SOLAR BLANKET

SJ, get yourself a sleeping bag made of the same material. Much nicer to be able to crawl inside if cold, and you don't have to worry about keeping it wrapped around you. They weigh about the same or less than the space blankets. I've carried one for 10 years.

Your pack contents sound very sensible to me, it's all I carry in the summer....except bug spray and you're much faster than me and can outrun em'

 

[Sherpa John]

Next time I'll bring a scale. Compared to my normal day pack, my presie pack "felt like" 5 lbs and probably was more like 10 in all honesty.

Thank you robo and Bow for the clarification and measurements.

One day I hope you learn to not take me too seriously.. but I guess I say that a lot.

Structure... Best advice for your prep.. BE PREPARED FOR ANYTHING and know YOUR limits.

THE END

 

[Double Bow]

By George, I think I've got it!

I'll have to remember that when I see a mad mad SJ it's the same as seeing a mad bear or rattlesnake and I won't take him seriously. Still, if you're going to make a joke, try to let people know it's a joke! JK -- Like that! That way, we don't need to call Miss Cleo to find out.

PS Thanks for the two negatives whoever gave them to me. Now I feel like one of the "Bad Boys". Whew! Glad to lose that Pat Boonesque rep! No more please. Now, let's get back to talking about things that are worth talking about

 

[Sherpa John]

Hey.. weighed my pack at Pinkham today. Same exact everything in it with full liquids.

7.6 lbs

Not trying to beat a dead horse... just a point of reference. Once I ran out of water... easily under 5 lbs.

 

[Double Bow]

OK, there isn't anything left of the dead horse to beat but, I think that the scale or something may need to be recalibrated.

Here is the math that robo and I used to figure that the pack had to weigh more than the 5lbs that was originally said and that also comes to more than the figure that was changed to 7.6lbs

A full 3L bladder contains approx 100oz. 16oz = 1lb, therefore 100oz = 6.25lbs.
A 32oz Nalgene bottle = 2lb of water + .5lb weight of the bottle.
The lightest Camelbak model that holds a 3L bladder (The Rally) weighs 1.5lb when empty.
According to Amazon.com, the WMG weighs 1.1lbs
EMS lighest raincoat or poncho weighs about .75lbs
The lighest rain pants would probably run the same .75lbs
Four 1oz granola bars would be .25lbs

That totals 13.1lbs plus the:

"2 PB &J sandwhiches, 2 hershey bars, 3 bags of yogurt covered raisins, a compass, whistle, 1st aid kit, headlamp, Tyvek Map, Mirror, Waterproof strike anywhere matches, a SOLAR BLANKET, Long Sleeve Jacket... AND a pair of Polarfleece Pants, winter hat and gloves."

Which would probably total at least 1.9lbs (though the jacket alone could be more). Therefore, it is safe to say that the pack weighed at least 15lbs (though probably more) if John had the lighest available of all of the previously mentioned things.

15lbs... That's 3x the weight that was first reported. Somehow, the 5lb story just doesn't hold water, even if the bladder and bottle were both empty.

Better call Pinkham and tell them to get a new scale...

After that, let's get back to talking about things that matter.

 

[SteveHiker]

15lbs... That's 3x the weight that was first reported. Somehow, the 5lb story just doesn't hold water, even if the bladder and bottle were both empty.
.

pun intended?

 

[SherpaKroto]

Some very sound advice to be found in this thread! My take:
1) Light is different for different folks. If you can't bail out fast, or are less experienced in this area, you need to carry more safety gear.
2) Water is key. Don't skimp on it.
3) You need protection from the elements! When it gets nasty, not having it will slow you down from escaping.
4) It's just a hike - no sense dying from it.

giggy: If we don't shut up soon, we're going to look pretty foolish if we don't finish!

beverly: I hope we see you this weekend! We're attempting it on Saturday.

 

[beverly]

SherpaK

We hope to beat the crowds by doing it on Sunday. That way we miss the riffraff (the runners, that is ) on Saturday.

Oh - and good luck to you on Saturday.