Questions on Basin and Haystack

[darren]

Received the following questiosn via email. Can you NY'ers help them out?

We want to do Basin but we were also thinking of trying to get Haystack the same day. We are going to be hiking in from JBL on the Phelps Trail to the Shorey shortcut. The questions are:

Can both of these mountains be summitted in one day by reasonable strong hikers? AND

Which way would you go:
Up the Shorey shortcut and do Basin first back down and across to Haystack? OR
Out to Haystack then cut across to Basin and back down via the Shorey shortcut?

We have already done Saddleback and I wouldn't attempt to climb up it's west face anyway, so we will not be going back down via the Ore Bed Trail.

Any information or help you can provide would be great!

Thanks!

Suzanne

 

[Raymond]

You’re staying at Johns Brook Lodge? It’s probably doable.

We tried just that back in 2000. My son was still eight years old, and we probably weren’t going as fast as you probably can. Also, it was raining in the morning, so we may have left a little later than we should have.

Anyway, we went and did Haystack first, following the Red Trail past Slant Rock (I remember that the Blue Trail up Little Haystack was real steep), then came back the (Yellow) Range Trail and tried to get up Basin. We made it up a ladder, but then my ladyfriend suddenly decided that if we continued on, we wouldn’t make it back to the lodge in time for supper, so we turned around right there. (She was right.)

We took the Shorey Short Cut back to the Red Trail, and then Susan went ahead, while Cam and I followed as quickly as we could. Susan made it back to the lodge and asked them to hold dinner for us, then went back out to meet us. They had said they could legally only hold it until seven o’clock, so when she met us we all had to really hustle to make it back with five minutes to spare.

We went back two years later to bag Basin by itself, again staying at Johns Brook Lodge, and going out and back via the Shorey Short Cut. I’ve never done the strtetch of the Range Trail between Basin and Saddleback.

I’m reminded that when we climbed Saddleback in 1999, we met some young hikers from Camp Treetops who had started from Keene Valley early that morning (4 a.m., maybe?), hiked all the way in to Haystack, then followed the Range Trail back over Basin and Saddleback — where we met them — and they were planning to continue over Gothics, Armstrong, Upper Wolf Jaw, Lower Wolf Jaw, Hedgehog, and Rooster Comb, getting picked up about 8 p.m., if memory serves, back at the parking lot on Route 73. It seemed impossible to believe to us at that time, but there they were, doing it. So it all depends on how fast you can go.

 

[Jay H]

Another option for the group if you do Haystack first and then over to Basin is to go over basin and go back towards JBL via chicken coop brook. Head down towards the col, it may require some bushwacking til you hit the open drainage and follow that down to Bushnell falls leanto/or follow it all the way to John's Brook and the trail on the north side of the brook back to JBL. CCB isn't hard to follow, you may though have to whack for a very short bit to hit the top without climbing towards Saddleback.


Jay

 

[Skyclimber]

It's very doable to do Haystack and Basin in the same day. I would suggest doing Haystack first, then to Basin and out Shorey Short. I am not a real fast hiker but can do Haystack, Basin and Saddleback in a 12 hour circuit (The Garden back through Ore Bed Trail) day hike. I've done this hike three times but two times I made it a little more interesting by starting from ADK Loj going up the Van Ho to Marcy intersection cutting to the Phelps Trail and back out John's Brook Valley, using two cars. It's one of my absolute favorite hikes in the Adirondacks.

 

[Hikerdad]

I agree that it's very doable from JBL. My sons (probably about 11 and 14 YO at the time) went from Slant Rock to Haystack and Basin (and then on to Saddleback, Gothics, Armstrong and Upper Wolfjaw and back to Slant Rock) in a day (albeit a long, gruelling day..maybe 11-12 hours). Just doing Haystack and Basin would have less elevation gain....

 

[Oldsmores]

It's doable. I don't think the direction matters much. I'd probably do Haystack, then Basin, then continue on over Saddleback and down Orebed - the climb isn't THAT bad (I think it's fun) and I hate backtracking.

 

[TCD]

I read the thread carefully, and I may have missed it: are you asking about summer or winter? In summer, it's completely doable by average hikers, even if you start from the Garden, as long as you get a reasonably early start and maintain a steady pace. In winter, it depends on the conditions. Some days, it could be almost as easy as summer. Other days, even the strongest hiker might not be able to get very far.

TCD

 

[Oldsmores]

I read the thread carefully, and I may have missed it: are you asking about summer or winter? In summer, it's completely doable by average hikers, even if you start from the Garden, as long as you get a reasonably early start and maintain a steady pace. In winter, it depends on the conditions. Some days, it could be almost as easy as summer. Other days, even the strongest hiker might not be able to get very far.

TCD

Excellent point! I just assumed summer...

 

[Jay H]

Excellent point! I just assumed summer...

That's funny, I was assuming winter...

You save 3.5 miles one way from the garden trailhead by leaving from JBL, you should have a lot of time in the summer to do Haystack, Basin, and more.

Jay

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

Interesting - I assumed winter as well, because I have to do those 2 as part of the final 7 peaks for my "W". I'll consider Haystack to Basin, and perhaps CCB for the descent.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

If doing those in summer, then definitely include Saddleback as part of the day - either first or last.

 

[NYBRAD]

My vote would be CC Brook in winter, but it's getting real close too being to late this year.

 

[Raymond]

For crying out loud, she said she's already done Saddleback.

And she implied she would be staying at Johns Brook Lodge, which isn't open during the winter, is it? I know the camps are, but not JBL itself, if I remember correctly.

Aside from the question having been asked in April.

In the immortal words of Gob Bluth (see avatar), Come on!

 

[John H Swanson]

It's doable. I don't think the direction matters much. I'd probably do Haystack, then Basin, then continue on over Saddleback and down Orebed - the climb isn't THAT bad (I think it's fun) and I hate backtracking.

This is what I would do. I would take this route. If you're really tired go back on your tracks from Haystack. Even if you do both Haysatack and Basin then it is a nice to do Saddleback. Though steep, I prefer it to returning down Basin (also steep too) Plus, I just don't like the shorey shortcut having done it twice. From the garden it's a tough hike. That's usually what I do. From JBL, should be okay if you're strong. If not bag out after Haysack.

 

[Oldsmores]

For crying out loud, she said she's already done Saddleback...In the immortal words of Gob Bluth (see avatar), Come on!

Oooooh nooooo, do the same peak more than once? That's just ridiculous!!! Why would you ever climb a peak that you've already ticked off your list????
Sorry Raymond, but people do hike for reasons beyond a check mark on a list of peaks.

 

[Neil]

Oooooh nooooo, do the same peak more than once? That's just ridiculous!!! Why would you ever climb a peak that you've already ticked off your list????

For your second round, why else?



Once you've done Haystack and Basin Saddleback is just a speed bump (with beautiful views). Then you get to experience the joys of slime as you descend the Orebed Trail.

You could always bushwhack from the Basin Saddleback col towards Upper Ausable Lake and then bushwhack over Sawteeth. I'm not sure what the point of that would be but you could do it.

 

[Raymond]

Uh, Oldsmores, here’s what Suzanne wrote:

"We have already done Saddleback and I wouldn't attempt to climb up it's west face anyway, so we will not be going back down via the Ore Bed Trail."

Aside from the inappropriate apostrophe in the possessive its, that’s pretty clear: She doesn’t want to go that way.

 

[John H Swanson]

Uh, Oldsmores, here’s what Suzanne wrote:

"We have already done Saddleback and I wouldn't attempt to climb up it's west face anyway, so we will not be going back down via the Ore Bed Trail."

Aside from the inappropriate apostrophe in the possessive its, that’s pretty clear: She doesn’t want to go that way.

That's a shame cause it really is a nice hike and IMHO the difficulty is over-rated unless you get vertigo and then you probably aren't doing some of the other 4s anyway.

 

[Oldsmores]

Uh, Oldsmores, here’s what Suzanne wrote:

Point taken, but it seems that you're somewhat selective about allowable departures from a strict answer to the question being asked...

...
I’m reminded that when we climbed Saddleback in 1999, we met some young hikers from Camp Treetops who had started from Keene Valley early that morning (4 a.m., maybe?), hiked all the way in to Haystack, then followed the Range Trail back over Basin and Saddleback — where we met them — and they were planning to continue over Gothics, Armstrong, Upper Wolf Jaw, Lower Wolf Jaw, Hedgehog, and Rooster Comb, getting picked up about 8 p.m., if memory serves, back at the parking lot on Route 73. It seemed impossible to believe to us at that time, but there they were, doing it. So it all depends on how fast you can go.

 

[Raymond]

I was just pointing out that if it was possible to do a particular hike in a very long day, a relatively short section of that hike could also be done in a day — but that success wasn’t guaranteed.

I wasn’t criticizing your original suggestion to include Saddleback; you merely pointed out that ‘‘the climb isn't THAT bad,’’ which was fair. (Although I have never actually done that section of trail — and I have somehow managed to climb the 46 High Peaks, and all the other Northeast 4s, many of them more than once.) It was actually ALGonquin Bob who said, ‘‘definitely include Saddleback as part of the day,’’ but several others said that she should go down Chicken Coop Brook (which isn’t even named on the Adirondack Mountain Club map) if she was hiking in winter. So, in my second comment, I pointed out that obviously she wasn’t hiking in winter, and also that she wanted to avoid re-climbing Saddleback, and for some reason you felt that was worth mocking.

I think Suzanne has her question answered, anyway.