Reducing Pack Weight for Winter Outings

[John H Swanson]

I do my share of backpacking and I've optimized my pack contents to reduce my 3 season pack weight significantly. Along the way, I've made sure not to sacrifice safety - so there are many material substitutions but rarely do I completely eliminate some piece of gear. The result is a comfortable reduction of weekend pack weight from 35 to 25 lbs.

For winter, day hiking, I'm much more safety consciuous. There are lots of back-ups and emergency gear. My packweight for a day hike is up around 30 pounds. Frequently, little of this gear leaves my pack.

I've made no real effort to optimize the weight of my gear and I'm now considering doing this. (Maybe I'm getting old. or older and wiser.) For example, I haven't really weighed my mittens to find the lightest ones that perform. Rather I focus on the one with the highest performance - weight be damned.

Okay, Here is my question: Have any forum members made conscious efforts to reduce their day pack weight for serious winter outings? Any thoughts on balancing safety vs weight. Any recommendations? Any learning to share?

One more point: I change little in my "standard winter pack" except maybe leaving the crampons out. Do people make a change in their pack contents with scope of the day's agenda?

Thanks,

JHS

 

[percious]

I always adjust to the adjenda. For example: sometimes I bring Hot Cocoa in a thermos, sometimes I don't. 30 lbs seems heavy for a winter daypack, even wet.

Typically, I bring a thermolite (9oz) 20 degree bag(2 lb) and emergency blankets for a potential bivi. I also bring a long a dry pair of socks, mittens, hats, down jacket, and some fleece pants. All of these are fairly light. My pack rarely exceeds the 25 lb mark. The only piece of gear I have been thinking about adding is an emergency-reusable bivy sack, like those you find at EMS.

How much does your daypack weigh alone? A lot of times you can reduce your weight by 2 lbs just buy buying a leaner pack. What other pieces of gear are you thinking about trading up on?

-percious

 

[Tom Rankin]

Okay, Here is my question: Have any forum members made conscious efforts to reduce their day pack weight for serious winter outings? Any thoughts on balancing safety vs weight. Any recommendations? Any learning to share?

One more point: I change little in my "standard winter pack" except maybe leaving the crampons out. Do people make a change in their pack contents with scope of the day's agenda?

First off, I feel unworthy to advise you!

I've made some changes to reduce pack weight. For instance, instead of a 2nd light and batteries, I have one of those keychain lights. It works perfectly well, and weighs a fraction of an ounce. Another thing you can do is if you have battery powered accessories, try to find ones that all need the same batteries. Easier said than done...

If you are going with a group, you can discuss how comfortable you are with sharing the emergency gear, instead of duplicating all of it.

I've 'upgraded' to gear that is lighter in terms of clothes, headlamp, etc. I usually don't bring anything to pump or filter water with in the winter.

Another thing I do is carry one of my bottles on my belt instead of on my back. It's still weight, but it's spread out more. I also carry food in my pockets. It's easier to get to and it again spreads out the weight.

Something that also can add up is packaging. Take a look at all the packages you have everything in. Maybe you can combine them, or put them in a zip lock bag, or whatever.

Finally, what I bring is also influenced heavily by where I am going, how long the hike is, how many people there are, who they are, the temperature, the forecast - in short - the conditions. Forewarned is forearmed.

There are some other threads going on right now about preparedness. I guess after reading them, I am not the most unprepared hiker, nor am I the most prepared. I guess I'm comfortable with where I am.

 

[John H Swanson]

How much does your daypack weigh alone? A lot of times you can reduce your weight by 2 lbs just buy buying a leaner pack. What other pieces of gear are you thinking about trading up on?

-percious

about 5 pounds. I have another one that's slightly smaller and weighs 4 pounds

I already switched to LED for lighting.
Was thinking about switching from synthetic fill to down for the e-gear.
Also thinking if I really need leather plams of my "serious" mitts, but having worn out 3 pairs of ORs in 5 years...
I also find the lexan water bottles way too heavy.
My first aid kit is 1 pound ... and I almost never use it.

 

[percious]

5 lbs is definitely heavy for a pack. As they say in the aerospace industry,
Durable, Light, Cheap: pick any two.

This is the pack I use:
http://www.marmot.com/products/product.php?cat=packs&subcat=42&style_id=G2285
It is durable enough for a weekend worth of crap, and light enough for day hiking.

What kind of sleeping pad are you bringing with you?

Really it comes down to ounces, I mean, you ahve to analyze every aspect of your gear. You take care of the ounces, the pounds take care of themselves. Somethings are worth their weight in gold in an emergency. I have been known to bring 50 ft of 8mm chord for emergencies, never needed to use it for anything yet.

-percious

 

[HAMTERO]

lighter stuff and ideas

You might want to check out the gear lists on www.backpackinglight.com
Some of the folks on that site are a little obsessive on the lightness but there is some good info there.
A lot to me depends on how far from the road I am and what conditions I expect.
Are you usually hiking alone? Suebiscuit and I split up the survival gear figuring one has to stay with the broken leg and one goes for help. If the party is bigger have to bring enough stuff to stay with injured person.
What's in that 1 pound first aid kit?
You have a lot more experence that I do though. That's pretty impressive with the gloves!

 

[spider solo]

winter day pack

Last year I bought a lighter more user friendly pack and greatly enjoy it. I definitely pack differently from one trip to the next. If I'm expecting wet snow I will pack perhaps extra gloves, if I'm expecting to be in very deep snow I might include a shovel esp. if I'm alone and off trail.
I have made a conscious effort to reduce my over all weight so I can't really pin it down to what I'm carrying in the day pack. I've updated some of my clothing to lighter more heat retaining "active wear".
Snowshoeing is one reason I look at my overall weight and not just my pack weight. The snowshoes will be carrying every thing from my head to my toes.
Therefore when I wanted to greatly reduce the load carrying weight for them
I trimmed weight...including myself. I trimmed about 30 lbs from the heaviest item...me. On rare occasions I will carry hiking poles along with my ice axe and on even rarer occasions I will leave the axe, but that is very rare indeed.
This year I've lighten my hiking boots and will see how far into the season I can wear them and still keep my toes.
I had lightened my headlamps till the day when I really needed the light and all I had with me was some wimpy little thing.
I have read articles to the affect that the older we become the less we tend to carry because we are not as strong and the more likely we are to trim ounces till the day it catches us unprepared....till the day comes when the young can say..."the old fool should have known better..."
Kind of a paradox, as I meet many seeming unprepared people and tend to think..."young fool, should've known better...."
but for now neither young or old..."these are the good old days"...enjoy!

 

[John H Swanson]

Percious,

I looked at your pack but at 2100 cu in it won't hold all my stuff. My packs are about 2800 and 3200 cu in. Problem is the high bulk of my emergency coat. It stuffs 9" dia x 12" long and weighs nearly 4 pounds.

Pad: Both packs include a removable 1/2 in foam pad (about 14" x 24") that is my emergency bivy pad.

1 pound first aid kit includes:
1 Case
2 pr Gloves Latex

1 Inventory Sheet
2 Accident Sheet

1 Elastic Bandage 3"
1 Triangular Bandage

1 roll Adhesive Tape Waterproof, 1"

2 Gauze Pads 3" x 3"
1 Steri-strips or butterfies 5 ea

2 Adhesive Pads 2" x 2"
2 Adhesive Pads 2&1/4" x 3&1/2"
6 + 2 Bandaids 1" and small
2 Bandaids Knuckle

1 Moleskin 2" x 3" sheet
5 Blister Block ovals
1 Second Skin pkg

3 Neosporin sample packs
2 Anticeptic wipes
6 potasium 80mg tablets
8 benedryl tablets
2 anti-diarrheal tablets

I guess I could reduce this by 1/3rd.

 

[marty]

John -
In addition to all the previous comments, the one thing that I pay attention to is the weight of the clothing in my pack. I never buy any hiking/backpacking clothing unless I know the manufacturer's published weight in advance (via their website or the retailer). Their published weights are sometimes a bit off, but generally close. If the clothing company doesn't publish weight, I won't buy theirs, as I figure weight is not a consideration.

Some clothing companies who are very weight conscious include Marmot (my favorite), Mountain Hardwear, MEC and Patagonia. There are also many others.

I also occasionally weigh my clothing on a kitchen scale. It is amazing to see the difference. Soft shell fleece jackets for example, are relatively heavy. Mine weighs 22 ounces (size large). In comparison, a Mountain Hardwear Monkey Phur fleece jacket is 14 ounces and a Marmot Chinook windshirt is 4. By using the two garments, I save 4 ounces for similar functionality. I also get greater versatility by having two garments.

I also really like my Marmot Driclime windshirt at 10 ounces for its warmth and versatility as a base or mid layer.

I also rarely use my 2+ pound bombproof shell coat, opting for a lighter waterproof jacket and additional lightweight layers. This typically saves me about 4-8 ounces. It also tends to breathe better and again gives me more versatility.

I also think that a down sleeping bag is worth considering. Not only is it a bit lighter, but it is much more compressible. This allows you to use a smaller and thus lighter pack.

Regards,
Marty

 

[jfb]

Problem is the high bulk of my emergency coat. It stuffs 9" dia x 12" long and weighs nearly 4 pounds.

As I've gotten older and wiser, my winter pack weight has actually increased because I'm carrying a bit more gear to increase my comfort and ability to survive an emergency. Even so, I've tried to limit the increase by selecting gear that is lightweight and compressible. Last winter I decided I needed new emergency clothing so I purchased a warm-but-light baffled down jacket and Primaloft pants. I use a compression stuff sack that's a larger diameter than the sack that came with the jacket, which makes it easy to stuff with gloves on yet doesn't compress the jacket more than the original sack. I also use an OR bottle parka for holding a water bottle on the hipbelt of my pack. With these simple changes, I can fit my gear in a 40 liter pack (which weighs about 4 lbs.)

Obviously, reducing pack weight can also include leaving infrequently-used gear at home. That's a judgement call that everyone needs to make for himself/herself, based on many factors. In general I'll carry some extra gear for just-in-case if it's lightweight (e.g. extra hat/mittens/vest) but don't bother carrying emergency gear for every worst-case scenario because I feel the probability of getting into one of those scenarios is rather small.

 

[percious]

I looked at your pack but at 2100 cu in it won't hold all my stuff. My packs are about 2800 and 3200 cu in. Problem is the high bulk of my emergency coat. It stuffs 9" dia x 12" long and weighs nearly 4 pounds.

This really screams at me. A 2lb down sleeping bag will probably offer more adequate protection in time of emergency. Plus, it will pack down smaller. Add a waterproof bivy to this, and you have saved at least 1 1/2 lbs and a considerable amount of space in your pack. Space in your pack could equal 2lbs savings by obtaining a lighter pack. You would just save 10%.

What other clothing are you packing in there? A full inventory of your pack items and their weights in oz would be helpfull.

I also use a lighter-weight down jacket for hanging out at the summit. It is amazing how warm these things are.

Your first aide looks reasonable, but I would use this mindset when figuring out what to ditch and what to keep. What are the chances you are going to get 5 blisters worthy of an oval? Will you have ireperable harm (since this is a dayhike here) if you did not have all 5? Apply to neosporin. If you need all three of those neosporin packs on a dayhike, something must be much more severely wrong. Use that mentality, and your first aide kit will get lighter.

-percious

 

[John H Swanson]

This really screams at me. A 2lb down sleeping bag will probably offer more adequate protection in time of emergency. Plus, it will pack down smaller. Add a waterproof bivy to this, and you have saved at least 1 1/2 lbs and a considerable amount of space in your pack. Space in your pack could equal 2lbs savings by obtaining a lighter pack. You would just save 10%.

What other clothing are you packing in there? A full inventory of your pack items and their weights in oz would be helpfull.

I also use a lighter-weight down jacket for hanging out at the summit. It is amazing how warm these things are.

-percious

I generally prefer a coat to a sleeping bag because, to me, getting into a sleeping bag is like thowing in the towel. I can think of many conditions where I would need to be very warm without being in a bag such as crawling out with a broken leg or caring to someone injured.

I'm looking at down to save weight.

Here is the full list with weight in grams. convert to oz by dividing by 28.35.


WORN:
PANTS - Mammut Champ
JACKET - Cloudveil Iceflow
BOOTS-Sorels
LINER SOCKS
OUTER SOCKS
TOP - EC2 Nylon
BOTTOM EC2 Nylon
Gaiters- Black Diamond with webbing
POLYPRO GLOVES Thin Blue
WATCH- Suunto Altimeter

CARRIED:
PACK-McHale SARC with all pockets 2642
RAIN COVER-Large 192
WOOL SOCKS-RAGG 118
PRIMALOFT PANTS w stuff sack 632
PARKA - WILD THINGS w stuff sack 1735
Precip Pants 208
Precip Jacket 328
WOOL GLOVES 42
POLYPRO GLOVES Thin Blue 31
OVERMITTS 150
GRANITE GEAR MITTENS 398
FACE MASK 55
GOGGLES w sack 134
Earmuffs 52
STUFFSACK Large Black 58
BALACLAVA Thin 59

NALGENE BOTTLE w/WATER 1288
NALGENE BOTTLE w/WATER 1288
Water Bottle insulator 156
Water Bottle insulator 156

MAP 50
PLASTIC BAG Contractors grade 33 gal 188
First Aid Kit 460
SUNGLASSES W CASE 52
CAMERA - Canon 400 in ziplock 230
Chemical Handwarmers 100
Wallet and keys 150
GREEN ORGANIZER BAG 108
Headlamp 100
Extra Headlamp Batteries 69
PENCIL 4
Rope - Purple 2 56
Iodine 62
SUNSCREEN 50
TP w/lighter 68
WHISTLE 8
Mirror 6
IBUPROFEN 32
Floss w needles 12
BLISTIC 8
LIGHTER 18
COMPASS 25
LACE / Small Rope 18
SWISS ARMY KNIFE 84
LED Pinch Light 12
Fire Starter 20

SNOWSHOES - Sherpa Lightweights w/ Tuckers +
CRAMPONS - Green Ice 12 w/straps
CRAMPON BAG - Gregory 281
Skipole - Blue w/ Black Diamond handle

Food 1000

Total Weight in kg 12.99

In Pounds:
Weight without crampons or snowshoes 28.7
Weight wearing snowshoes / carrying crampons 30.8
Weight wearing crampons / carrying snowshoes 33.3
Weight Carrying both crampons and snowshoes 35.4

 

[John H Swanson]

I'm not much on earmuffs, but that's a personal preference.

This is a bit off the subject, but came across a link to Gossamer Gear. Don't know how appropos it is to the Northeast as hiking in the Sierras in summer is quite different gear & clothing-wise. I was drawn to the site because of the carbon fiber poles (under Accessories).

My ears get cold but my head is hot.

Thanks...to all responders

 

[percious]

Thats a pretty reasonable list. The only thing that is majorly different with my list is that I use a sleeping bag and a light down coat instead of a heavy down coat and a pair of pants. Personally, I think you are safer with a sleeping bag than a coat, but that is going to be personal taste.

The only other things I would eliminate are the stuff sacks and the rain cover, as previously mentioned. I even go a little heavier on the waterproof pants and jacket, depending on the conditions.

I still think your greatest reduction is going to be in the form of reducing your pack size and getting a lighter pack. Other than that it looks like you have a good system.

-percious

 

[Tom Rankin]

My 2 cents:

- Face mask/goggles/sunglasses - Maybe don't really need all 3 ?
- Earmuffs/balaclava - Ditto - but already mentioned
- I keep a bottle in my pants pocket, so it does not require an insulator.
- Camera - Obviously not essential, but your choice. My cell phone has a camera and it's very light.
- I never bring my wallet, but I suppose I should at least bring some form of ID in case I'm found frozen stiff
- Iodine - Previously mentioned
- Sunscreen - Put on a good dose before you leave .... ?
- I've never weighed my crampon bag, but I doubt it weighs 10 oz ? Is that what '281' means ?

 

[DougPaul]

Couple of comments - you might consider dropping the pack cover and iodine for winter use.

Water can also be contaminated in winter too. I carry a small dropper bottle of tincture of iodine for water purification year-round. More like 15 gm rather than 62.

Doug

 

[jfb]

Some things to consider:

1. pack cover - snow just brushes off and what are you trying to keep dry anyhow?

2. Precips top and bottom - unless rain is in the forecast and if it is then bring Precips but replace the parka and Primaloft pants with lighter insulation.

3. face mask - redundant with a balaclava, goggles and hood.

4. 1 kg. of food seems like quite a bit for a dayhike.

5. gloves/mittens/overmitts - BD Mercury Mitts are pretty light and have removable liners. Shells can be used as overmitts over light gloves.

6. SARC seems heavy. Should be able to find something lighter.

7. Parka seems heavy. I didn't think Wild Things made anything that heavy. Should be able to save at least a pound here with a down or Primaloft jacket.

8. Crampons can be tied to outside of pack without a crampon bag.

Good luck!

 

[John Graham]

John,
With that list, you should have a wheel barrrow or a pack mule, who persuaded you to buy those heavy McHale Packs? What I want to know is where is your stuffed animal? Don't you realize that you only psyche yourself out weighing all that stuff.

Seriously, would you carry the same pack for the catskills? Many times I find myself leaving the full crampons, relying on sixpointers in below treeline situations. I wouldn't cut out much for an all out expedition, but many of my winter trips don't require quite so much back up gear, my climbing is getting tamer. I am not a big fan of down, it does not perform well when wet, I want to be able to wear the gear, not hide it in the bottom of my pack, so it doesn't get wet. The difference seems to me to be more one of bulk, rather than weight. You need to find some younger gear hog companions to carry more of the heavy stuff, just bring a cell phone and a GPS.

 

[John H Swanson]

Geez, I should have guessed that I would feel like I'm being attacked on this posting, but in reality this is what I'm looking for. It takes a good shaking to break up a system that has proven successuful for so long.

I immediately want to defend many of my choices, but I don't want to quell the discussion. I asked for comments and critique and that's what I'm getting and I appreciate it.

Tom, True for sunglasses. I like my earmufs but they won't cut it when it gets serious. Actually they fit a nitch when it's windy on the climbs. Had the car broken into 4 times so I always bring my wallet. I'll check the crampon bag, but it does have a plastic liner to protect the fabric I have left them or it behind at times. 281 means gr and yes nearly 10oz.

Doug, I have a smaller bottle for lightweight backpacking. haven't switched yet because the larger one is more durable. Soon.

JFB,
1. Off trail hiking in warm (30s) weather can get you and your gear soaked, yes even in winter. Of course I could leave it out 95% of the time. Like many of the comments ... Gets back to the idea of a std pack vs repacking for each trip. I have visions of forgetting the needed gear if I repack.
2. Precip is wind protection, too. Yes-for the lighter insulation.
3. Not really above tree-line
4. True, it could be less and often is less.
6. Tough to change from a custom pack that feels so sweet after many good name packs that didn't fit.
7. It's called the Makalu (goretex, primaloft) The warmest one they make.

Grambo, Quit harrassing me. Your mentorship is the reason for this problem. Without you I'd be either carrying a fanny pack or dead ... probably dead after the stuff I've been through. BTW, this is the winter pack for the whites, dacks, ME etc. I'm still in the 0SARC locally with about 18 pounds.

 

[Jeff-B]

Water weights

My biggest problem with weight is the amount of water I need to bring, knowing I usually can't refill in most places.
I will drink 3 quarts easy, if not more, on any daytrip.
And carry a 4th, so my extra quart is simply...extra weight.

I would like to hear how other "heavy drinkers" manage this?
I have thought about a pot & stove to melt snow, but this is not really practical due to time constraints and counter productive to water weight problem, traded for fuel weight??

All this talk about the gear weight, what to bring and what not to bring, my water problem is the biggest weight problem by a long shot.

I have the pump which is for other 3 season use and weighs less than 1 quart equivalent.
Water sources are plentiful so this is not a problem. But during winter treks I am counting on everything frozen.
I guess I can always eat snow...and have..



Jeff