rdavisiii
New member
Does anyone have any suggestions on gear to use instead of crampons for condition swhen crampons would be overkill but you still experience patches of ice on the trail.
Thanks
Ron
Thanks
Ron
Suggestions for hiking in early icey conditions
- Thread starter rdavisiii
- Start date
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Instep crampons are good for these type of conditions.
-dave-
-dave-
Tim Seaver
Well-known member
Winter Traction System
Ah, one of my favorite subjects!
I am not a real big fan of instep crampons. They are ridiculously tall and tippy, squirm about on your foot, don't give ANY traction during toe-off or heel plants when you need the traction the most, and are dangerous on rock to boot. In short, I think they suck and perform better as paperweights.
Although I have used screwed boots previously only during early and late season conditions that would not require the additional use of snowshoes or "real" crampons, I have now come up with a "Screwboot System" that is compatible with full crampons and snowshoes. ( It does require putting screws in your boots, so if that concept is simply too shocking for you, stop right here - BTW the screws are easily removed with no damage to the sole)
First, acquire some 1/2 inch motorcyle ice racing screws from Magicracing.com. These are FAR better than plain ol' sheetmetal screws - sharper, taller, and harder.
Attach your full crampon to your boot.
Install the screws as close as you can to the perimeter of the boot, without interfering with the crampon frame - (check to see that the crampon is still easy to put on and off) Install anywhere from 16 to 25 screws in each boot, making sure to have a few well placed on the toe and heel.
Snowshoe bindings would get quickly shredded by the sharp screws. To eliminate this problem, I add a piece of FIRM 3/8"- 1/2'" foam rubber installed atop the binding that has been cut from an outline of my boot placed on the foam ( I used a piece of the foam rubber tiles my wife bought to baby proof our slate floor - sleeping pad foam is too squishy)
Every binding is going to present a different challenge as far as mounting this - I simply used a short piece of stiff copper wire ran through holes in the foam and through a few slots in the snowshoe claw.
Try the snowshoes out with the foam spacer and the screwboots in the woods near you before heading out to make sure everything is compatible. One bonus of the foam pad is slightly warmer feet, "to boot".
The screwboots give great traction on low angle ice, and for safely navigating mixed LOW ANGLE ice and rock, and icy water crossings particularly at speed, they can't be beat. And you NEVER have to take them on or off. The traction on bare rock is also superb on everything BUT water polished rock. Walking on pavement is OK, but nothing I would want to do for miles. Once the slope angle exceeds 25-30 degrees or so, they will slip, and that would be time to change to real crampons.
Other minor caveats - the screws WILL shred your pants cuff if not protected from wandering foot placements - gaiters are recommended. Also, they probably wouldn't be welcome at Grey Knob or any of the huts - bring some hut slippers!
I would have added some pics of the system, but my wife made off with the digital camera - I will try to add some next week.
Here is a pic of the "original" screwboot ( Shown with std. sheetmetal screws before the racing screws were installed to accomodate full crampons)
Ye old screwboot
Ah, one of my favorite subjects!
I am not a real big fan of instep crampons. They are ridiculously tall and tippy, squirm about on your foot, don't give ANY traction during toe-off or heel plants when you need the traction the most, and are dangerous on rock to boot. In short, I think they suck and perform better as paperweights.
Although I have used screwed boots previously only during early and late season conditions that would not require the additional use of snowshoes or "real" crampons, I have now come up with a "Screwboot System" that is compatible with full crampons and snowshoes. ( It does require putting screws in your boots, so if that concept is simply too shocking for you, stop right here - BTW the screws are easily removed with no damage to the sole)
First, acquire some 1/2 inch motorcyle ice racing screws from Magicracing.com. These are FAR better than plain ol' sheetmetal screws - sharper, taller, and harder.
Attach your full crampon to your boot.
Install the screws as close as you can to the perimeter of the boot, without interfering with the crampon frame - (check to see that the crampon is still easy to put on and off) Install anywhere from 16 to 25 screws in each boot, making sure to have a few well placed on the toe and heel.
Snowshoe bindings would get quickly shredded by the sharp screws. To eliminate this problem, I add a piece of FIRM 3/8"- 1/2'" foam rubber installed atop the binding that has been cut from an outline of my boot placed on the foam ( I used a piece of the foam rubber tiles my wife bought to baby proof our slate floor - sleeping pad foam is too squishy)
Every binding is going to present a different challenge as far as mounting this - I simply used a short piece of stiff copper wire ran through holes in the foam and through a few slots in the snowshoe claw.
Try the snowshoes out with the foam spacer and the screwboots in the woods near you before heading out to make sure everything is compatible. One bonus of the foam pad is slightly warmer feet, "to boot".
The screwboots give great traction on low angle ice, and for safely navigating mixed LOW ANGLE ice and rock, and icy water crossings particularly at speed, they can't be beat. And you NEVER have to take them on or off. The traction on bare rock is also superb on everything BUT water polished rock. Walking on pavement is OK, but nothing I would want to do for miles. Once the slope angle exceeds 25-30 degrees or so, they will slip, and that would be time to change to real crampons.
Other minor caveats - the screws WILL shred your pants cuff if not protected from wandering foot placements - gaiters are recommended. Also, they probably wouldn't be welcome at Grey Knob or any of the huts - bring some hut slippers!
I would have added some pics of the system, but my wife made off with the digital camera - I will try to add some next week.
Here is a pic of the "original" screwboot ( Shown with std. sheetmetal screws before the racing screws were installed to accomodate full crampons)
Ye old screwboot
Last edited:
NYBRAD
New member
Tim's idea sounds like it would work great.
You can also try these. I've heard they work from more than a
few people.
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/stabilicers.html
For me,
if I'm not in crampons or snowshoes, I use caution.
I think the more time you spend in 10 or 12 point crampons, the more you'll feel comfortable walking over rock with them on.
You can also try these. I've heard they work from more than a
few people.
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/stabilicers.html
For me,
if I'm not in crampons or snowshoes, I use caution.
I think the more time you spend in 10 or 12 point crampons, the more you'll feel comfortable walking over rock with them on.
TomEske
New member
Tim sounds like he has this thing "nailed" (sorry). However, just a small point (sorry again). I also thought tsome of the insteps I had seen looked a little too tall when all you want is to add a little security to you step. I picked up these Ice Walkers #1 made by Covell (in NY) and sold all over. Campmor carries them. I love them. You can wear them all day even on flat concrete. They are not too tall, but still give a grip on the ice. Yes, they have all the toe-off and heel-on issues, but I still love them. They come either with rubber bands to hold them on or a simple single strap. Best of all they are CHEAP! I think I paid $6.00 for the ones with the rubber strap, and $8.00 for the version with the nylon strap for my son (to be tested tomorrow). Next time I have a chance, I plan on picking up another pair just to have for a hiking partner that may need them.
No they don't solve all the problems, but thay are cheap and easy.
I do plan on looking into Tim's ideas. Perhaps having a handfull of screws and a spintight in the pack might not be a bad idea. I wish I could afford a set of full crampons, but I've been hiking on compromises all my life.
Hike on,
Tom
No they don't solve all the problems, but thay are cheap and easy.
I do plan on looking into Tim's ideas. Perhaps having a handfull of screws and a spintight in the pack might not be a bad idea. I wish I could afford a set of full crampons, but I've been hiking on compromises all my life.
Hike on,
Tom
teejay
New member
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Yaktrax
You might want to consider Yaktrax. They're about $20 and widely available. I have not had a chance to try them out on really slippery ice but I did wear them for a few miles on some fairly hard packed snow. They weigh about 2 oz. each. They stayed on without any problem except when a hidden root snagged one of my heels and I walked right out of it. A simple solution would be to use the instep strap of your gaiters to keep from losing them. Great Outdoors Depot lists them. Yaktrax has a list of retailers at their website. www.yaktrax.com
I've heard that a common problem with spiked types such as Get-a-Grip and Stabilicers is that the spikes fall out regularly. It seems as the manufacturers know this as they sell replacement spikes.
teejay
You might want to consider Yaktrax. They're about $20 and widely available. I have not had a chance to try them out on really slippery ice but I did wear them for a few miles on some fairly hard packed snow. They weigh about 2 oz. each. They stayed on without any problem except when a hidden root snagged one of my heels and I walked right out of it. A simple solution would be to use the instep strap of your gaiters to keep from losing them. Great Outdoors Depot lists them. Yaktrax has a list of retailers at their website. www.yaktrax.com
I've heard that a common problem with spiked types such as Get-a-Grip and Stabilicers is that the spikes fall out regularly. It seems as the manufacturers know this as they sell replacement spikes.
teejay
Warren
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I knew someone who used the YakTrax. She had a complete failure of one of them very early in walk last winter in Harriman.
I've looked at them at campmor. They do not seem to be all that sturdy.
I've looked at them at campmor. They do not seem to be all that sturdy.
teejay
New member
- Joined
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Thanks again
MichaelJ,
Thanks again for spotting the Yaktrax I lost. I got the regular as the strap on the Pro didn't seem worth the extra money ($6-7) and the sales girl where I bought them said she didn't think it was necessary. Just to be safe, though, I will either add a strap or use the instep strap of my gaiters.
teejay
MichaelJ,
Thanks again for spotting the Yaktrax I lost. I got the regular as the strap on the Pro didn't seem worth the extra money ($6-7) and the sales girl where I bought them said she didn't think it was necessary. Just to be safe, though, I will either add a strap or use the instep strap of my gaiters.
teejay
NYBRAD
New member
I've heard the same thing about the YakTrax breaking and falling off. I've seen more than a few pairs returned to my buddy's shop. Sounds like they might be good for getting the mail, but peak bagging is a little more than they can handle.
Nor'Easter
New member
Stabilicers
Hey.
There's a really cool alternative to the screw boot if the idea freaks you out. They're called "Stabilicers". Not StabiliZERs. They basically do what the screw boot does, but without altering your boots. Think of them as really sturdy sandals for your boots, but studded with screws on the bottom. Any search engine should let you pull it up.
Later.
N'E
Hey.
There's a really cool alternative to the screw boot if the idea freaks you out. They're called "Stabilicers". Not StabiliZERs. They basically do what the screw boot does, but without altering your boots. Think of them as really sturdy sandals for your boots, but studded with screws on the bottom. Any search engine should let you pull it up.
Later.
N'E
NYBRAD
New member
Welcome to the club of Noreaster's Noreaster!
Did I just stutter?????
The link is above a few posts.
Did I just stutter?????
The link is above a few posts.
Two other alternatives:
http://www.kahtoola.com/
These are lightweight, low profile somewhat blunter crampons that can take a beating when the ice is too thin to use crampons you want to keep sharp for ice climbing.
http://store.yahoo.com/gusa/i41029a.html
Garmont imports a running shoe called the "icebug" which has little metal spikes on each shoe- the shoe is waterproof/breathable and it really works. Won't work on really hard ice, but on soft ice and other slippery surfaces, including wet rock, it works great. I've used them for maybe 20 or so miles on the trail and no problems at all.
http://www.kahtoola.com/
These are lightweight, low profile somewhat blunter crampons that can take a beating when the ice is too thin to use crampons you want to keep sharp for ice climbing.
http://store.yahoo.com/gusa/i41029a.html
Garmont imports a running shoe called the "icebug" which has little metal spikes on each shoe- the shoe is waterproof/breathable and it really works. Won't work on really hard ice, but on soft ice and other slippery surfaces, including wet rock, it works great. I've used them for maybe 20 or so miles on the trail and no problems at all.
Forgot to add: Yaktrax work really well for about a mile. Then the rubber breaks. They seem to have designed a beefier one to solve this problem, but haven't talked to anybody who has used them yet. The Stabilicers are used by a lot of hikers in places where the ice is too thin to use crampons, and may be the best choice of the list.
Tim Seaver
Well-known member
Kahtoolas, etc.
Here is the screwboot WITH the Kahtoola crampon. The Kahtoolas are perfect for "soft" boots that cannot accept a standard crampon, as they are made to flex. They can be used on running shoes as well. Of course, being aluminum you are not going to want to beat them over rock if you want them to last.
The only beef I have with Stabilicers is the weight - they are practically as heavy as a pair of regular crampons
Side view of Kahtoola Screwboot
Snowshoe adapter for Screwboot
Here is the screwboot WITH the Kahtoola crampon. The Kahtoolas are perfect for "soft" boots that cannot accept a standard crampon, as they are made to flex. They can be used on running shoes as well. Of course, being aluminum you are not going to want to beat them over rock if you want them to last.
The only beef I have with Stabilicers is the weight - they are practically as heavy as a pair of regular crampons
Side view of Kahtoola Screwboot
Snowshoe adapter for Screwboot
