water-"proof" / breathable rain jackets

[arghman]

So I have a rainjacket which is supposed to be water-"proof" / breathable, and the coating has worn out a bit (see my T18 MD BPP trip report). Am waiting to hear back from the manufacturer re: what products to use, I may just head out to EMS and buy some Nikwax or whatever. (for the record this is a cheapo Red Ledge Thunderlight w/ TH4)

I figure I should buy a real jacket the next time EMS has a sale or whenever I can find a good deal. Am looking for something light & thin & more durable than what I have. I don't do winter hiking & rely on other layers for the warmth. Marmot Precip and EMS Thunderhead are options... any suggestions? are the pricey jackets really that much better? Jason's Algorithm for Proper Gear Cost is to take the cheapest marginally acceptible alternative and multiply the cost by a factor of 1.5-2.0, then find something in that range -- this has served me fairly well in the past for consumer electronics but not sure if it applies to outdoor gear.

 

[Boreal]

I'm re-new to this board (I used to post on here a while back) and figured I'd chime in with my $0.02

If your finding that the outer fabric is "wetting out" than the problem may just be that your DWR (durable water repelant) has worn off, in which case retreatment with a nixwax type product should help. I personally use a marmot precip jacket which I've had for some years now. It works well and has held up ok, but the breathability is really quite poor. At around $100 I would use this as your minimum acceptable cost and when you multiply it buy 2 you get enough to go out and buy a Montbell Peak jacket. Montbell makes killer stuff and their w/b membrane is based on one of the new generation of direct venting ptfe's, in this case Toray's Entrant which is supposed to be comperable to eVENT.

 

[Chip]

"TH-4 is a high tech polyurethane coating that contains microporous and vapor permeable layers. The pores are hundreds of times larger than water vapor. This allows perspiration driven by body heat, to escape through the fabric, without condensing as moisture inside the garment. Conversely, the pores are thousands of times smaller than water in its liquid state therefore water cannot penetrate."

If that "polyurethane coating that contains microporous and vapor permeable layers" is actually worn out I would shoot it liberally with Camp Dry and see how it works. It looks like a good jacket for that price. Maybe get another. How long have you used it ?
I do more in the winter and tend to avoid foul weather potential the rest of the season, so I just carry something cheap that will get me out of the woods.

 

[rambler]

Patagonia is having a sale at their website. The Spector and Grade VI are wp/b. The Zephur is like the Marmot DriClime. Puff Ball vest is popular, too.

Look for thread under "lite gear talk":
http://www.backpacking.net/bbs.html

 

[Rick]

Arghman,
If you have one of the cheaper Red Ledges (Which I have heard from a few thru hikers that it actually works pretty good) that is starting to lose its coating, I would probably anti up and buy a new jacket and leave the Red Ledge in the Trunk of your car for those days when you are unprepared.

I picked up a Marmot Precip (I think you can find them for about $60 now) back in 2003 for a summer trip to Alaska and I have worn it for 3-seasons for the last 2 years except for this recent summer and it has been a very good piece of equipment for me. It is pretty light and packs down tiny, it is not stiff, like heavier 3 layer goretex so it won't work in the winter (I think you mentioned you don't hike much then). I have had to re-treat it for DWR a few times now, but it's superlight and tiny pack size make it almost completely disappear in my daypack or waistpack, when not in use.

EMS has "System III" which is a coated jacket and a step down from Goretex,
They have a newer System III out - I think it is called ThunderCat, it is supposed to be as light as the Precip or the Gore-Tex Paclite jackets, but I don't know what performance is like.

Since much of the breathability is tied to the Durable Water Repellancy on the outside (DWR), I sometimes think it doesn't matter what kind of W/B membrane is on the inside if the outside has no DWR - You will still get wet from perspiration.

I honestly beleive when you buy a "better" name brand garment, you do get a much better DWR coating on the outside, which allows breathability for a longer period before you have to re-treat the garment. I think with cheaper jackets like the Precip or the EMS III, there is a cheaper or less effective DWR, but if you don't mind ironing or throwing your jacket in a warm dryer for 15 minutes between trips, which is cheaper than treating your jacket every few rainy trips with a commercial DWR, then it becomes a non-issue.
Good Luck

 

[ripple]

If You are not a bushwacker, look at the frog toggs. Very light weight, very breathable and very water proof. They are a bit on the delicate side, but not as delicate as dryducks.

 

[KevCon223]

I have the Marmot Precip Jacket (2 of them) and they work well. They are super lightweight and pack well. I have also used The North Face Venture Strider Jacket which breathes nice and has a mesh lining, but it weighs almost twice as much and takes up more pack space than the Precip Jacket.

 

[canoehead]

good rain gear

I use the EMS brand called pack lite, it's very lightweight water proof and breathable, I used this set top / bottoms in the whites while doing a winter training and then brought them to Ecuador for a month and they performed well in the rain forest and on many different summits. I cant complain about the gear cuz it has done the job I bought it for..

safe adventures
Canoehead

 

[arghman]

thx everyone, I think I will wait until the next EMS 20% sale/coupon & look at their offerings.

fyi -- as of Friday 8/19, the EMS in Manchester had a few EMS waterproof/breathable (I think it was their "Thunderhead" line) jackets on the clearance rack in XL and XXL sizes (reg. $99.99, clearance $59.99); their website offers the "Thunderhead Stretch" item in S/XL/XXL sizes for $49.99
I have no ties to EMS & have no personal experience w/ this product, just thought I would pass along notice of a sale...

 

[marty]

Arghman - I too have the Red Ledge TH-4. It served me well for 4 years, but wetted out during my Owl's Head hike in the rain last Saturday. Being too cheap to buy a new one, I am going to try the Nikwax wash, which restored the repellancy on some of my other waterproof garmets. Will let you know how it works.

By the way, I also heard that Frog Toggs is outstanding, as long as you don't bushwhack.

Marty

 

[el-bagr]

After spending the weekend in the Pemi in rubber suits, I just picked up a Sierra Designs light "packable" raincoat (Joe Jones tent sale in NConway; $20; they had one small left on Sunday). Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I have heard good things. Much much lighter than rubber, though I wouldn't 'whack in it.

 

[Periwinkle]

The Nikwax techwash does work -- I've used it a number of times on my well-abused Precip. Only suggestion if you use it: wash your jacket a few days before you go and air out it out well. The stuff REEKS!

 

[onestep]

If You are not a bushwacker, look at the frog toggs. Very light weight, very breathable and very water proof. They are a bit on the delicate side, but not as delicate as dryducks.

I'll second the motion.

My 3 season W/B trail jacket is the birght yellow Rainshield O2 Rainwear. It's made from 3M's Propore material laminated to a non woven fabric. It is hands down the most "breathable" waterproof jacket I've ever worn. Another plus is that it doesn't depend on a DWR coating to maintain it's waterproofness. Like the more popular Frog Toggs it is on the delicate side BUT with caution I wore it this year while bushwacking both Mendon and W Kennebago during thunderstorms.

THE most breathable raingear I own is, hands down, my umbrella ... but a bushwackers tool it's not!

Onestep

 

[Pucknuts61]

I have the Marmot Precip too that I purchased from Campmor (last years model).
It serves the purpose as it's lightweight and packs easily as most people stated but there's 2 points I wanted to make.
1. I compared it to the 05 model and the only difference I can see is that the logo is now raised lettering. Therefore buy the "older" model and save 40 bucks (unless the raised lettering is important )
2. The ONLY downside to the Precip is that it does get clammy even with the pit zips. This is due to sweat and humidtiy combined.
Otherwise it's a great rain coat and windbreaker.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[Boreal]

My 3 season W/B trail jacket is the birght yellow Rainshield O2 Rainwear. It's made from 3M's Propore material laminated to a non woven fabric. It is hands down the most "breathable" waterproof jacket I've ever worn. Onestep

I have heard nothing but rave review for the breathability of propore, though I haven't tried it myself. The price is certainly right... I wonder if 3M will catch on to the recent popularity of the product and start making it in a more durrable, outdoor-oriented design (though they would likey jackup the price in so doing).