Giving way on the trail with snowshoes

It is an age old question..to snowshoe or not to snowshoe

Certainly there is no better winter hike than a nice packed out snowshoe track with a half a foot of new snow on it gliding along with snowshoes on.. Fun!

I also get that a hard packed frozen trail with microspikes rocks totally and is equally as fun.

Anyone that winter hikes has seen the rough and rutted mess left behind by booters on soft snow..it becomes especially nice when refrozen. but they didn't need snowshoes...Fair enough

Typically I would think that uphill hikers have the right of way and I might further say that if someone was in bareboots by choice and stepped off the snowshoe packed trail for whatever reason then they should be ready for the deeper snow..which would seem like a good enough reason to wear snowshoes

Maybe this is the year that a compromise can be reached as booters seem just as passionate about the sport as those in snowshoes.

Perhaps for this winter season lets try..snowshoer's on the left hand edge of the trail, booters to the right. That way everyone can enjoy their time out doors. The snowshoers would enjoy packed out trail on their side of the trail and the booters can enjoy the kicked in steps and holes that are so enjoyed by many on their side of the trail.

Certainly there are some narrow spots where the 2 pathways would coincide but I think well meaning booters and snowshoers would get back to their own side as soon as it was appropriate.

I think with a few strategically placed signs at trailheads the word would get out and while not everyone would be happy it might be worth a try

DayTrip said:

Always amazed at the excrutiating level of debate that ensues from such seemingly simple inquiries on this forum. Most entertaining indeed! I never imagined so much deep philosophical thought was going on inside of the heads of the people I pass on the trail when I'm hiking. I must be doing it wrong....

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....and it is not even full on winter yet. The action gets even more interesting once hikers actually start postholing. And to think it's been less than a decade since the Internet started educating us on this horrid behavior. Makes me wonder what we did back in the old days without all this technology. http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?5922-What-is-Postholing

The annual post holing verses snowshoe debate has began, ye ha. In all my years hiking, I never gave much thought to who should step aside, I guess, I just react to who I encounter, I don't mind waiting going either way. I also cant stand when people dictate how and what others should do in the backcountry. You don't want to carry snowshoe's, don't, your the one that's going to suffer, you want to go ahead. I hike a lot, and I never put much stock into how any trail got the way it is, I just adapt and use the best means for me to get up it. Two last points, I would never comment negatively to someone on the trail for a lack of gear, you have no way of knowing why they have or have not what you would deem the right gear. I also prefer not to receive negative feedback regarding what Im doing, basically I do my own thing, If you don't care for my style, wait till you get home and bitch on the internet, I really don't want to hear it.

Kevin Rooney said:

Wow, I don't recall anyone referring to someone as "complete douche bag" in quite some time on these boards! I just looked at your profile - "Occupation: Medicinal chemist" - are you labeling the two in question based upon your professional training, or as a layman?

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Yes, I am a medicinal chemist. I have no idea how that slots in with the current conversation. Am I supposed to remark on your complete lack of information in your profile now? Or should I stick to the topic at hand?

Moving on, if I saw some dude step off the trail to let a couple of guys pass, and rather than offering a "Thanks!" or a hand, they offer some smug remark on gear choice, I would think they are complete douche bags. I'm sorry if the language is too strong for your virgin ears.

Moreover, I wish people on this forum would, from time to time, offer up something beyond the groupthink that predominates the Union Leader. "He was unprepared!" "He's a newb!" "He's inconsiderate!" All because someone elected to leave the snowshoes in the car on a packed out trail in the Whites in March? Seriously? I don't know how you all manage to have any fun when you spend so much energy checking to see if the next guy is Doing It Right.

The UL? Now that is an insult.

I see a someone is not looking at the emotion faces here, whatever they are called. Let's say "Peace" on this one and let the name calling end.

I can't wait for the day when downhill hikers and uphill are at peace with each other.

The struggle continues.



Peace.

sierra said:

... I also cant stand when people dictate how and what others should do in the backcountry. You don't want to carry snowshoe's, don't, your the one that's going to suffer, you want to go ahead. I hike a lot, and I never put much stock into how any trail got the way it is, I just adapt and use the best means for me to get up it. Two last points, I would never comment negatively to someone on the trail for a lack of gear, you have no way of knowing why they have or have not what you would deem the right gear. I also prefer not to receive negative feedback regarding what Im doing, basically I do my own thing, If you don't care for my style, wait till you get home and bitch on the internet, I really don't want to hear it.

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I approve this message.

Wow. I completely missed the middle of this thread.

To the OP: I normally give way to the downhill hikers as they have speed and momentum and I need an excuse to rest.
With or without snowshoes.

DayTrip said:

Always amazed at the excrutiating level of debate that ensues from such seemingly simple inquiries on this forum. Most entertaining indeed! I never imagined so much deep philosophical thought was going on inside of the heads of the people I pass on the trail when I'm hiking. I must be doing it wrong....

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Very funny daytrip.I want to formally tell everyone to just get out of my way regardless of which way I am hiking,thank you.
One more point here;No matter what you believe in politically/socially,etc you are allowed to make fun of the union leader.This thread is great entertainment......

Kevin, it went down pretty much as you described I did judge the snow conditions for the hike based upon the weather forecast for the day along with the conditions that I observed at the trailhead. After the hike and back at the parking lot I thought (and still think) that micro spikes were the most appropriate footwear for the trail conditions that I hiked on that day. The trail was quite hard packed and I did not think that I left it in a worse condition than when I arrived.

It is difficult / impossible to foresee every possible situation that may occur on a hike. If we always planned for the worst case scenario there may be less above tree line winter hiking going on, which would be a shame. On a below tree line hike where you plan to stay on the trail I am not sure it is reasonable to plan for off trail event as occurred to me.

However, I was not wearing micro’s and carrying snowshoes but based on my assessment of expected conditions for the hike - weather forecast and conditions at the parking lot the shoes were left in the car. I did not think that the way it was presented to me on the trail that day was the best way for me to learn, even if I was “getting what I deserved”. If you point is that by not carrying the snowshoes I put myself in a position that if my assessment of expected conditions was wrong then I was kind of up sh*t creek with no one to blame but myself…..you maybe right.

Steve

hikerbrian said:

Nowhere in the original post did sjhbos say that s/he post-holed at any point anywhere on the trail.

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There no post-holing by me on the very hard packed trail. I left the trail in the same condition as the way I arrived. My only post hole was sinking into the snow when I stepped off the trail to let others through.

Jeepers. If this is the kind of thread we get with a mere dusting of snow, it's going to be a long winter.

Freedom of the Hills 8th edition: "Be courteous when meeting an oncoming party. Traditionally, the party heading downhill steps aside to let the ascending climbers continue upward without breaking pace. However, in steep terrain or if the descending party is larger, the climbers moving uphill may step aside and take a few breaths."

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Everyone knows only d-bags don't yield for uphill hikers.

From my experience there in no norm (much less a rule) about who yields to whom. In practice I think the person who prefers the break more tends to yield with a few exceptions.

In that time as I approach another hiker I am evaluating their desire to keep moving and if I think they have a stronger desire than me then I yield. Often people heading uphill prefer to yield for the rest and seeing this I blow by and thank them. But if I see someone struggling that prefers to keep moving such as folks with big loads I will often yield

Being from NJ, I probably yield less then most of you think I should but I justify it by thanking the other party

On a narrow broken trail in late season regardless of boots or snowshoes the person yielding is likely to fall into a deep hole. Experienced hikers know this and the decision who yields IMO should be based on who can find a better place and be more likely to "survive" yielding.

To break out the lecture to someone who yields to you in these condition is plain rude. Even the bare booter would get a thank you for yielding because I know it could be me in that hole. Now If I've been following and falling into postholes all day I would pass while biting my tongue. In fact I would probably smirk seeing the offender in the hole

A few points:

1. I would guess fully 90%+ of people on hiking trails have no idea what this conversation is about nor that there is even a historical protocol in this regard.

2. If I was considering winter hiking and reading some of these threads, I might pick another hobby. It sounds like the winter trails are filled with post-holing idiots who can't make their own decisions about gear. They are followed closely behind by snowshoe nannies who like to decide how everyone else uses their trail. Or maybe you'll get barreled down because you didn't know to yield going uphill...or is it downhill?

3. Reality: 99% of the people I have passed on trails are courteous, friendly, and happy to to be out in such a beautiful, peaceful place. Passing on trails, regardless of who steps aside, has not been an issue for me other than a few very busy weekends when crowds and culture dictated some differences here. Patience helped. You'd think there was a lot of negativity out there on the trails. That seems to be more concentrated here. I don't see this negativity out there.

+1 Sierra

A trail post-holed by inconsiderate (or more likely ignorant) hikers is really annoying to me, but it happens. People are always going to be on the learning curve. Other people attempting to regulate the gear I use on my hike however is unacceptable to me.

I'm just happy to see snow building on the slopes of the Northern Pressies. Have a good winter season everyone, whether you yield going up or down.

I'm more likely to yield on the way up because I want the rest, but most often it's a matter of who first reaches a good place with room move aside. In either direction, if somebody's coming the other way and there's a good place to step aside, I do so.

And now you see why I prefer to hike alone or with very select people.

The wife and I hiked Mt Abram last month and met some people coming down that did not yield at all, and since it was a narrow section of actually hit my shoulder and pushed me into a tree. He apologized, but clearly was annoyed that I was on his trail in his way. I simply said 'excuse ME' and stepped aside to let the others behind him pass. I am also of the mindset those coming down the trail yield because they have an easier time of traveling.

I saw nothing the OP did as being wrong. If you step off trail, whether with or without snowshoes, expect to sink. Usually I assess the person coming toward me and if they are not wearing snowshoes but I am, I yield. If I am not wearing them because conditions do not warrant it, I'll step aside, but not so far I'll sink. If that means I'm still partially in the trail, then so be it, the other person will then have to make their own judgement call whether or not to pass or yield.

Where do the sledders fit into this discussion?

sjhbos said:

So I guess my question is does a party who is wearing snowshoes have a greater expectation to step into the soft snow that is off the trail or are the snowshoes not relevant?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

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I think if I was wearing snowshoes and came upon a hiker who was barebooting, I'd step off the packed trail and let him/her pass by, regardless of who was going uphill. I certainly would not scold the barebooter for not wearing snowshoes.

If I was barebooting, I'd probably just stop and stand on the packed trail and let them go off trail to pass me.

If I was wearing snowshoes and they were wearing snowshoes, I wouldn't know what to do.

dug said:

Where do the sledders fit into this discussion?

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That could be partially dependent on whether or not you consider butt sliding to be in the realm of sledding or within a realm of it's own. Either way that can be another topic of debate. All I know is that postholing can really mess up the sledding and the butt sliding.

dug said:

Where do the sledders fit into this discussion?

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If the sledder is wearing crampons, the answer is pretty obvious.