Winter Sleeping pad choice

Ok, so I am not that new to winter camping but it seems that I have one problem that seems to be different everytime I go out. What is the best option for sleeping pads when sleeping on snow. I go out one time with my Thermarest Expedtion pad and I sleep the night away. I go out the next time in the same conditions and I freeze. I also have a thermarest prolight 3 3/4 I use for summer. Should I take this along or should I go out and buy a foam pad to accompany the Thermarest? I have seen some people out with those super cheapo walmart foam pads recently. Is there somthing to this I am not getting?

I found a closed cell pad under my thermarest guidelite works really well. The thermarest just wasn't enough by itself. Closed cells are cheap and don't add a lot of weight.

I have the large thermarest expedition, the standard size was too small.
I use this inside a thin bivvy cover to keep bag and pad together.
I also carry an old, thin Ensolite pad, cut to shape, that I slide under the thermarest when it's really cold.

I have found the best system for me.

Thermarest Prolite 3 with a Thermolite pad underneath. The Thermolite can be used around camp, as a sled etc.

www.advancedmountainproducts.com/products/thermolite

-percious

Neither the Thermarest 3 or 4 is adequate in winter. Also, if it springs a leak, you have no insulation under you.

A half-inch closed cell foam pad is the "old" standard--warm enough, but not terribly comfortable. A high altitude expedition might use 2 pads.

The combination of a 3/8 or 1/2 inch closed cell pad with the Thermarest is warm enough, comfortable, and has backup in case of a leak.

Of course, make sure you stay on the pads--I feel the edges down through my sleeping bag with my finger tips to make sure I am still on the pad.

Doug

I second the thermarest PLUS foam pad combo. tried and tested in winter camping. you don't want to be without a pad if the thermarest conks out on you due to a leak.
p.s. also think about carrying a patch kit, although duct tape may also help if the thermarest springs a leak

Jeebus said:

p.s. also think about carrying a patch kit, although duct tape may also help if the thermarest springs a leak

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The patch kit may not work in the cold. (Don't have any specific info, just many adhesives don't work in the cold.)

Duct tape is generally hard to get to stick well in the cold (warm with a hand) and the adhesive on duct tape may leave a gummy residue that makes a proper patch difficult.

Some of the old patch kits used a pot of boiling water placed on the patch to set it--don't know if this applies to the new ones.

Doug

It took a few cold nights to figure this one out for myself (what can I say, I am French) I definitely third the closed cell / Thermarest combo. When you use the thermarest alone, it's actually obvoius when you look at the umprint that you leave in the snow, once you pack up the tent. Good luck

I'm having the harderst time staying on top of my pad...

How in the world can I stay on my pad through out the night? I have been backpacking for years and years now and I just haven't figured it out.

Brent, I keep the bag and pads together inside a light bivvy shell.
I have also seen bags (you could fashion this yourself) that have bands/straps of stretch material at 2 or 3 points to secure the pad under the bag.
I like my bivvy, though, I roll it right up and store it with the thermarest.

I use a 2 pad system in deep winter. Thermarest Ultralight and a Z-Rest, works well to well below zero. On dayhikes i always have the Z-rest.

Chip said:

I have also seen bags (you could fashion this yourself) that have bands/straps of stretch material at 2 or 3 points to secure the pad under the bag.

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A problem with attachment systems is that some (myself included) prefer to vary their sleeping positions including sleeping on their sides. At least a portion of the bag (particularly the head) has to roll with the sleeper.

BrentD22 said:

How in the world can I stay on my pad through out the night?

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The original Thermarests had a rather slippery surface--a real problem if on the slightest grade. Fortunately not so slippery now.

Whenever I wake up, I just feel the edges of the pad through the bag and readjust. Not perfect, but it works well enough.

Doug

I go with a summer therma rest and a ridge rest. The ridge rest I cut into a 1/3 piece and a 2/3 piece. The 1/3 piece goes IN my pack, unfolded, and against my back to keep anything from sticking into me. The therma rest folds up and goes inside the pack as well. The 2/3 piece of ridgerest stays rolled on the outside.

When working around camp (cooking, drinking, etc.) the ridge rests make great seats. When sleeping, I slide the ridge rest pieces under my therma rest for the double insulation.

Jkrew81 said:

I go out one time with my Thermarest Expedtion pad and I sleep the night away. I go out the next time in the same conditions and I freeze.

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One possible reason you get different results may be whether you're sleeping on snow or frozen dirt underneath the pad. Snow will insulate more than the ground. Another reason may be the mattress is not inflated to the same air pressure. In winter, I blow up my mattress as hard as I can after it self-inflates. If you sleep on your side, your hips and shoulders will compress the mattress slightly as you sleep and you'll lose heat to the ground even if you're not touching the ground. After a few hours, that heat loss will cool you. Check out the R-values of mattresses and try to use at least a R-5 pad in winter. My warmest mattress is an older Camp Rest with a R-7.6 rating. Your Expedition pad is only R-4.4 (as found on the website). A new Thermarest pad with solid foam core has a rating of R-5.8.

jfb said:

One possible reason you get different results may be whether you're sleeping on snow or frozen dirt underneath the pad. Snow will insulate more than the ground.

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Until the snow gets compressed. After a few days sleeping in the same place, the snow will turn into an icy depression.

jfb said:

Another reason may be the mattress is not inflated to the same air pressure. In winter, I blow up my mattress as hard as I can after it self-inflates.

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A trade-off. Blowing the mattress up puts moisture in the mattress.

Doug

We have been using the Thermarest Luxury LE pads for several years. In addition,we line the tent floor with a fleece blanket. We are also using Blizzard 0o down bags with Polartec liners and we always stay pretty warm.
We did just buy a ridgerest pad to use as a seat for winter camping. The crazy creeks work great,but the ridge rest is easier to carry on a pack.

Therma pads were made for comfort, not for insulation. The air pockets inside a therma are too large for insulation purposes. Have you ever slept on a large inflata-bed mattress on a cold floor? The cold comes right up through the mattress. Closed cell foam is the answer. I used two pads last time I was out. 11 below in a lean-to -- A Zee-Pad and Washington pad and felt no cold from the bottom of my bag. These are ultra-light too, unlike the thermas.

oldfogie said:

Therma pads were made for comfort, not for insulation.

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Thermarest (and similar) pads are made for comfort _and_ insulation. The internal open-cell foam provides the insulation. It is just not as good an insulator as the same thickness closed cell foam pad.

Another contrast is the air mattress--nothing inside to prevent heat flow and much less net insulation than a Thermarest. An inflata-bed mattress is just an air mattress.

There are also down-filled air mattresses--the air mattress part provides the support and the down the insulation.

Doug

I just use a plain, ole foam Z-Rest for winter and summer. Warm and comfortable enough for my needs. I am considering a Thermarest air pad for this spring/summer though.

(woohoo! 100 posts!)

I just revised my choice. My sons Thermarest over a RidgeRest melted no snow last night, while my Thermarest over ensolite melted PLENTY of snow.

I just ordered the large, wide Ridgerest to go under my large, wide Thermarest.