Any BearVault 350 failures (possible human error)?

[adkpooh]

On Friday August 10th at the campsite below Wright Peak my boyfriend and I were visited by a bear that evening who managed to get into our BearVault (and scamper away with a vault from a different group- I do not believe that it or any of the remains were recovered. I do know that the sounds of splintering plastic in the night did not bode well.) The examination of our empty BearVault appears as if the hungry bear was able to get a claw under the lid and managed to pop it open.
Since then, in discussion, we have been unable to agree or disagree if it was possible that the lid may not have been on securely. I have been unable to open the stupid thing since we purchased it and leave the opening/closing of the bearvault to my boyfriend. To this day....he is fairly confident it was on there tight and that the bear still managed to get in.
From what I understand, the bear came into contact with a third bearvault at the same site and clawed the daylights out of the lid but never made it in. (Oddly enough....two out of three bearvaults had the red sticker on the lid.....ours and the one that was unopened. The bear seemed to know enough to concentrate his clawing on the sticker section of both lids.)
My question is....has anyone else experienced a failure? Out of curiosity....has anyone had their bearvault mauled with any particular interest in the area of the red sticker (the sticker with the arrow that you might use to line up the little lock)? I was just wondering if this particular bruin might be 'smarter than the average bear'.... and has found a few bearvaults in his time that were not closed completely or 'just barely' turned past the lock.

In fourteen years of hiking in and around the High Peaks this is our first -and very unfortunate - bear sighting.

Thanks for your time!

 

[DougPaul]

There have been some problems due to incorrect closing of the previous 250/300 model. http://www.bearvault.com/bearvault_productnotices.php Don't know about the 350.

A search on "bearvault failures" brings up a number of hits:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bearvault+failures&btnG=Google+Search

Doug

 

[Chip]

It's pretty easy to get the rim of the lid outside of the tab that locks the lid.
You have to guide the rim through and past that with your fingers. If it was closed improperly the rim would have a bulge in it over that tab that could allow a claw to access.

If the bear is having ANY success than it learns to try all of them, I guess.

 

[Jay H]

If the bear is having ANY success than it learns to try all of them, I guess.

And maybe all at once too.

I've seen it pretty easy to get the tab outside the lock thing if you aren't paying attention and doing things quickly.

I haven't used my BV300 that much in the ADKs, I've used it out west and in Alaska but haven't had any issues with bears and it makes a nice stool (just make sure the lid is on securely before you sit on it and don't overtorque it by rotating on it too much.

Jay

 

[1ADAM12]

On Friday August 10th at the campsite below Wright Peak my boyfriend and I were visited by a bear that evening who managed to get into our BearVault (and scamper away with a vault from a different group- I do not believe that it or any of the remains were recovered. I do know that the sounds of splintering plastic in the night did not bode well.) The examination of our empty BearVault appears as if the hungry bear was able to get a claw under the lid and managed to pop it open.
Since then, in discussion, we have been unable to agree or disagree if it was possible that the lid may not have been on securely. I have been unable to open the stupid thing since we purchased it and leave the opening/closing of the bearvault to my boyfriend. To this day....he is fairly confident it was on there tight and that the bear still managed to get in.
From what I understand, the bear came into contact with a third bearvault at the same site and clawed the daylights out of the lid but never made it in. (Oddly enough....two out of three bearvaults had the red sticker on the lid.....ours and the one that was unopened. The bear seemed to know enough to concentrate his clawing on the sticker section of both lids.)
My question is....has anyone else experienced a failure? Out of curiosity....has anyone had their bearvault mauled with any particular interest in the area of the red sticker (the sticker with the arrow that you might use to line up the little lock)? I was just wondering if this particular bruin might be 'smarter than the average bear'.... and has found a few bearvaults in his time that were not closed completely or 'just barely' turned past the lock.

In fourteen years of hiking in and around the High Peaks this is our first -and very unfortunate - bear sighting.

Thanks for your time!

Your not the first person I have heard this from. There were a few others over on ADKFORUM that have had trouble with the bear too. I guess its only a matter of time before they evolve.

 

[TCD]

After reading this, I'm glad I have not invested in a canister. I'm sure my wife would have trouble opening it, just as adkpooh does. And it's becoming apparent that the canisters are not the definitive solution they were thought to be.

I no longer camp in the areas where they are required. I didn't want to spend the $, and have the uncomfortable thing banging against my back. Lots of beautiful places to camp outside the Eastern High Peaks. On last year's NP through hike, we hung a nice high bear bag for 6 nights in a row and had no trouble.

 

[DougPaul]

After reading this, I'm glad I have not invested in a canister. I'm sure my wife would have trouble opening it, just as adkpooh does. And it's becoming apparent that the canisters are not the definitive solution they were thought to be.

There has been a certain amount of trial and error involved in perfecting the canisters. And the bears experiment and can learn and remember new techniques for entry. All this is no different from hanging techniques--it appears that in some places bears have learned how to defeat any hang.

Neither is a magic bullet, but the canisters will get better.

Doug

 

[moonrock]

What about the heavier, opaque Garcia canisters (the coin-operated ones) ?
Any failures [Pushed off a cliff doesn't count !] ?

MR

 

[1ADAM12]

What about the heavier, opaque Garcia canisters (the coin-operated ones) ?
Any failures [Pushed off a cliff doesn't count !] ?

MR

This is the kind I have and never had a problem

 

[Grumpy]

After reading this, I'm glad I have not invested in a canister. ...

... Lots of beautiful places to camp outside the Eastern High Peaks. On last year's NP through hike, we hung a nice high bear bag for 6 nights in a row and had no trouble.

I am aware of four generally available bear resistant canisters options, those made by or sold as Garcia, Counter Assault, Bearikade and Bear Vault.

The Garcia, Bearikade and Counter Assault Bear Keg designs use a three-screw system that requires use of a tool (a common coin, key or screwdriver) to fasten down or free the lid. The Bear Vault – which is the one that has been under discussion here as having failed – uses a screw- or twist-off lid, similar to what we would find on a large peanut butter jar.

I wonder how the Garcia ($70), Counter Assault Bear Keg ($70) Bearikade (ca $200 - $275) have performed in the Adirondacks HP area, compared to the Bear Vault ($65 - $70).

Finally, here's a comment I've made frequently in past discussion of the canisters.

Remember, bear-bag hanging once was the way to defeat bears in the HP, and look at what happened.

It appears the Adirondack bears are pretty adaptable. History tells us that when an easy source of goodies is denied them (as in the region's old garbage dump closures) the bears will move around until they discover a new one to exploit. As the canister "program" in the HP areas becomes increasingly effective in denying bears their easy pickings, the animals will move. Take the long view on this. The way to stop bears from becoming a problem for campers in other areas is to use the best possible means to secure food supplies that are available -- and use them now. Canisters presently seem to fill the prescription.

G.

 

[Jay H]

Is there data available for bear problems outside the Eastern high peaks, where the bear canister law is in effect? Are the bears moving out?

Jay

 

[Grumpy]

Is there data available for bear problems outside the Eastern high peaks, where the bear canister law is in effect? Are the bears moving out?

Jay

We do hear about episodes in and around some towns, now and then. But as nearly as I can tell, bear problems for backcountry campers outside the Eastern High Peaks are not an especially big deal at this point in time. History tells us that can change, though. It seems to me that if we have means to keep negative history from repeating itself, we ought to use them.

G.

 

[Chip]

The way to stop bears from becoming a problem for campers in other areas is to use the best possible means to secure food supplies that are available -- and use them now. Canisters presently seem to fill the prescription.

G.

I agree. Bear are hungrier than they are smart. They'll move to an easier source sooner than hang out and decode the new challenge. Unfortunately if the easier source is the next lean-to with an improperly closed Bear Vault, then the bear remains in the area, fed and more experienced.

 

[moonrock]

I agree with Grumpy that bears may shift their focus away from the restricted areas. Plenty of campers with food elsewhere.

I brought my Garcia this last trip even though I knew I'd probably camp in Indian Pass instead of Flowed Lands. The guys I met at the shelter hung their food, but it would have been an easy take-down.

Since I got a compression sack for my sleeping bag (and use a fleece blanket in summer), the fit into my pack is not a problem. The weight is noticeable, esp when full. But the security and convenience (and seat) is the reward.

Have used down here in NC and VA, esp on well-traveled trails. Have also gone with the others and rope-hung my food instead,to save weight.
Cable hangs are standard at Smokies designated campsites, and are VERY well designed there, with spool baffles, circuit pulleys and carabiner attachments.

Bears in the Southern Apps generally do not get hung food and are not a problem at shelters - HERE is an exception:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2126899670080703265pxEZbd

But Mice are the most common nuisance at AT shelters

MR

 

[DougPaul]

I agree. Bear are hungrier than they are smart. They'll move to an easier source sooner than hang out and decode the new challenge. Unfortunately if the easier source is the next lean-to with an improperly closed Bear Vault, then the bear remains in the area, fed and more experienced.

Bear have good memories and are persistent. If they have previously obtained food in some place or from some form of storage (or both) they will periodically keep trying for a long time. One (bear or human...) can never tell, if it worked once it may work again.

Once a food source has entered the local bears' collective memory (ie local bear culture), it could easily take more than one generation for it to be erased. (Mom's attempts could pass the technique on to the cubs, even if she fails to find food.)

Bears also tend to be territorial which probably allows humans to be much less careful in some areas than in others.

Doug

 

[adkpooh]

Found some info:

Thanks DougPaul for the links and 1Adam12 for the heads-up on ADKForums. There is quite the interesting thread there re: Bearvault failures around Marcy Dam. From what I gather someone from that forum is in contact with the folks at Bearvault re: the failures and they claim to be even working with the DEC on 'prototype test lids'. I just assumed that the Bearvault manufacturer would be less than concerned if I conveyed the incident- I will report it now. Someone has posted photos of their Bearvault with the lid looking almost exactly as ours does (the claw marks are concentrated around the sticker and a claw mark on the rim).
Huff..... still does not make me feel any better though. Fed bears are dead bears. I am pretty sure one of the guys camping at the same spot took pictures of the bear. While I did not tempt fate and leave the tent to check out the bear during his visit - they mentioned that he was surprisingly large and they thought it was possible that he had a tag in his ear. They were amazed that he was completely unconcerned with the yelling humans. The strangest thing I remember was that it seemed he knew right where the vaults were. He made his way around the outskirts of the tents to all three separately stashed cans. They must emit more of a food odor that I would have imagined.

We have been carrying that can on all other hikes....even full day hikes attempting to get accustomed to having it around- for all of the bears- not just the Dam bears. In the meantime -I will consider trying another brand if we have to rent one.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

 

[DougPaul]

. From what I gather someone from that forum is in contact with the folks at Bearvault re: the failures and they claim to be even working with the DEC on 'prototype test lids'. I just assumed that the Bearvault manufacturer would be less than concerned if I conveyed the incident- I will report it now.

The Bearvault folks have been quite active in their efforts to fix problems with their canisters.

See also http://www.sierrawildbear.net/ and http://sierranevadawild.gov/features/sierra-wild-bear.

While I did not tempt fate and leave the tent to check out the bear during his visit - they mentioned that he was surprisingly large and they thought it was possible that he had a tag in his ear. They were amazed that he was completely unconcerned with the yelling humans. The strangest thing I remember was that it seemed he knew right where the vaults were. He made his way around the outskirts of the tents to all three separately stashed cans.

Why should the bear worry? If it is habituated to humans, it knows that all they do is gawk, wave lights, and make a lot of noise. It also knows that they have food nearby.

They must emit more of a food odor that I would have imagined.

A bear's nose will put the local bloodhound to shame. The canisters are not hermetically sealed, and most likely have food residues on the outside. The canister does not hide the presence of food.

Doug

 

[adkpooh]

absolutely...

A bear's nose will put the local bloodhound to shame. The canisters are not hermetically sealed, and most likely have food residues on the outside. The canister does not hide the presence of food.

I am well aware now that they must be able to smell these things from a mile away- forget the contents....just from regular handling. It just hadn't occurred to me before. My backpack itself must smell.

I wonder if I offer to pack in the tent....if my boyfriend will agree to take the food from now on? He runs much faster.

 

[DougPaul]

I wonder if I offer to pack in the tent....if my boyfriend will agree to take the food from now on? He runs much faster.

The bear can easily outrun either of you...

I hope you prefer short relationships.

Doug

 

[moonrock]

1) use a plastic bag liner (heavy mil poly: many canisters come with one).

2) wash out canister (and liner), inside and out, between uses (vinegar or VERY dilute bleach - same as (our) smelly poly undies).

3) cook away from camp, like the nice rangers (the stern ones with the steel and rubber bullets) say to do.

4) if you use coins to open/close the canister, be sure to "launder" them(kidding - heheheheh !!).