Bear Cannisters - Let the circus begin

[jbrown]

I wish DEC would stop nagging backpackers and start bagging bears. These animals (I'm refering explicitly to the high peaks area) are hardly wild anymore... Do any of you get a chuckle at the stonefaced dead-serious DEC agents in the LOJ parking lot? I know, I know, there just doing their job. But I have to bite my lip to not burst out laughing.

I guess I'll echo Tramper Al's last post and go Mcenroe-esque here, you CANNOT be serious! The DEC agents are trying to curb the actual problem; i.e. the backpackers. We have invaded the bear's turf with our backpacking and they have become accustomed to getting food from the people that don't know how to keep it from them. Laugh at the DEC officers? No way, thanks for the hard work, fellas. More than once I've seen a group of college-age guys with huge, over packed packs, carrying a cooler and a couple of cases of beer on their way in to Marcy Dam, but the bears are the problem. (This has been between the hours of 11:00 p.m and 1:00 a.m., no DEC officers on hand.) Want to party? Go to a KOA. Stay out of the High Peaks.

I hope that they never start "bagging bears" in response to the people who are too ignorant to keep their food away from bears.

Flame over.

 

[Warren]

Those with a better history of the Whites than please chime in, but I was under the impression that the Whites did have a bear problem of the sort the ADKs currently have. I thought that the old Camp 16 was closed for this reason (and overuse) and bear boxes were added to the designated campsites.

 

[Adi]

Lack of Education

I have to agree with jbrown,

I love how humans move into wild places and our presence creates problem critters (this can also apply to many urban areas). We then don't want to take the blame for the problem we have created, as we never do, unless we are taking responsibility for something positive. We then see kiliing these animals as a solution. I think that's horrible.

I also think the approach of enforcing bear barrels is a start in the right direction. If it can curve the bears' behaviour, then it's worth the effort.

 

[David Metsky]

Those with a better history of the Whites than please chime in, but I was under the impression that the Whites did have a bear problem of the sort the ADKs currently have. I thought that the old Camp 16 was closed for this reason (and overuse) and bear boxes were added to the designated campsites.

The Whites have had occasional problem bears (Brutus comes to mind) but only a few and it's a MUCH smaller problem than it has been in the Daks. Camp 16 was closed for overuse, not bear problems. I see the bear boxes installed at 13 Falls as a proactive preventive measure, not responding to a crisis. Not all campsites have the bear boxes, only the ones where the danger is greatest.

The Whites have never been as bad as the Daks with respect to bears.

-dave-

 

[Chip]

We have invaded the bear's turf with our backpacking

As long as we're arguing the points made, I'd like to correct this one.
Unless by "turf" you mean this continent, the fact is the bear populations are increasing geometrically in the northeast due to 1) a lack of hunting pressure 2) little or no food chain competition 3) vastly improved habitat, probably the best habitat that has ever existed in history.

I do agree that it is our problem and that the bears quickly learn where to find food the easiest way possible. Unfortunately, bears are territorial, so if one is removed, another fills it's space.

The next problem will be predators like coyote, wolf, large cats, feral pigs.

I'd also like to encourage "Peaks" to continue to post. I'm sure he meant the bears had more experience, not higher SAT scores.

 

[Chip]

I love how humans move into wild places and our presence creates problem critters (this can also apply to many urban areas). We then don't want to take the blame for the problem we have created, as we never do, unless we are taking responsibility for something positive.

There were no bear at Marcy Dam 30 years ago and that region is virtually unchanged. There was probably a higher human population there, as a matter of fact, then, after the Olympics. The fact is the animal populations are increasing and will continue to increase.

 

[Adi]

There were no bear at Marcy Dam 30 years ago and that region is virtually unchanged. There was probably a higher human population there, as a matter of fact, then, after the Olympics. The fact is the animal populations are increasing and will continue to increase.

I will not pretend to know what the bear population was in the high peaks 30 years ago, I trust these are accurate numbers. Even so, do you not see education of hikers and initiatives such as using bear cannisters to help prevent bears from becoming dependant on humans as a better alternative to killing them?

 

[Chip]

Absolutely. No doubt. It's better to train them away from campsites, especially since they are no real threat (with a couple notable recent exceptions) to us and that, if one is "removed" another fills it's space quickly.

Although classified as a carnivore, black bear are omnivores and nearly herbivores. When the REAL carnivore populations increase in the northeast, there will be harder decisions to make then carrying a bear canister.

 

[Chip]

I will not pretend to know what the bear population was in the high peaks 30 years ago, I trust these are accurate numbers.

Adi, 30 years ago I was one of those stupid teenagers packing steaks, Cheetos and beer into Marcy Dam. Trust me, if there were bear, we would have brought them out.

 

[Happyfeet]

In the mid to late 60's, my family did alot of car camping in the Daks at DEC campgrounds. Can't tell you where, as I was rather young. The one thing that has always stood out in my memory of those trips was the evening jaunts to the local dumps to watch the bears. There were always numerous cars filled with people and numerous bears grazing the piles of garbage. Back then dumps weren't covered daily as the landfills are today. I don't know if that made a difference but with the dumps being covered an easy source of food disappeared.

 

[DougPaul]

It's better to train them away from campsites, especially since they are no real threat (with a couple notable recent exceptions) to us and that, if one is "removed" another fills it's space quickly.

Bears are opportunistic feeders with good noses and strong jaws and claws. Once they find a food source, they will keep returning for more. Mothers also pass their knowledge on to their cubs. Body size is important in the bear world, so eating as much as possible is essetial for reproductive success and human food and garbage is very high quality (high calorie content).

<soapbox on>
In areas where bears are hunted, the individuals which do not avoid humans tend not to live very long. In areas where they are not hunted, the best method is to make sure they don't become hatituated to humans and that they don't learn to associate us with available food.

So, I'll hang my food or use a cannister.

In Yosemite, the problem is/has been so bad people are/were forbidden to even leave food in their cars. Bears would go through a parking lot ripping open any car that looked or smelled interesting. There are also mugger bears that would threaten hikers in the hope they would drop their food-laden packs and run. Hopefully, we can prevent this from happening here. The bears are only trying to make a living--it is up to us.
<soapbox off>

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Back then dumps weren't covered daily as the landfills are today. I don't know if that made a difference but with the dumps being covered an easy source of food disappeared.

This is/was a factor in some of the western parks. Bears used to feed (or even be fed) at dumps which attracted them to populated areas and habituated them to humans. When the dumps were closed, there were suddenly a lot of hungry, habituated bears near concentrations of humans.

Doug

 

[Rik]

This is/was a factor in some of the western parks.

I think this happens in the east as well. Newcomb was the dump we use to watch bears at when I was younger.

 

[Quack]

Bears, new

Hi everyone, I'm new to VFTT and this is my first post. I think another part of the bear problems in the Adirondacks are the average camper's misconceptions about black bears and what they're capable of. I know a lot of people think of black bears as cute little pests that can be chased off relatively easy. People aren't nearly as wary of black bears as they should be. I know I was guilty of this growing up in Northern NY, until I saw what my Grandmother's garage looked like after a black bear accidentally hit the automatic door closer and locked itself in. I just think that if people at Marcy Dam thought a grizzly was going to be nosing around their campsite, they might be more inclined to do the right thing, and hang their food. Thoughts?

 

[Tramper Al]

People aren't nearly as wary of black bears as they should be. Thoughts?

Sure, agreed. I don't think anyone really wants to 1) lose their food, or 2) be put in danger by proximity to roving bears at night. However, I think many people would like to think that the best reason to keep bears from getting access to human food is to protect the bears themselves.

 

[funkyfreddy]

Those with a better history of the Whites than please chime in, but I was under the impression that the Whites did have a bear problem of the sort the ADKs currently have. I thought that the old Camp 16 was closed for this reason (and overuse) and bear boxes were added to the designated campsites.

Yes. Warren, there have been a few and I remember one summer when hiking out of the Pemi being questioned by a ranger and asked if I had seen the bear. It had raided campsites close to 13 falls and I remember picking up some of the trash it left behind on the trail (shredded packaging).

I also think this is one of the reasons the Desolation Shelter was torn down - too many people partying around it which attracted a "problem" bear which I think was later killed. Dave, was this Brutus? I remember hearing stories about a bear that had a habit of showing up at dinner time and chasing hikers away from their food. This was a while ago when I was doing a lot more hiking in the whites so if some of my details are wrong please feel free to correct me. I really enjoyed staying at the Desolation shelter and was sorry to hear about it being torn down.

The moral of the story is that sloppy campers are bad/deadly for wildlife, and if bear bagging isn't working - for God sakes, bring a canister. Believe me, you'll sleep easier at night knowing that you're not contributing to a bear problem and that bears, raccoons, mice, squirrels, etc. aren't going to get into your food.

 

[Peakbagr]

The bears were there around Marcy Dam 30 years ago, and they were around Colden, Flowed Lands, etc. What happened is an explosion of hikers and campers that habituated the bears to poor camp/food management and the easy meals that followed.

Back in the 70's a huge bear by the name of Cliff (DEC estimate 650-700 lbs) that brazenly raided leantos and campsites all over the area. Cliff would walk right into the leanto while you were sitting there and chase the hikers out.
It got worse and worse until 1 Spring Cliff showed up with a pair of cubs (due to her size, everyone assumed it was a male). The combination of the absolute lack of fear and the danger that Cliff would harm someone around the cubs led to her demise. There were other stories, but the combination of crowding and bad camping habits have made this a problem that DEC chose to address with cannisters.

 

[Doc McPeak]

I think this happens in the east as well. Newcomb was the dump we use to watch bears at when I was younger.

There was found to be a correlation with the closing of the Newcomb dump (it is now just a transfer station) and a substantial increase within a few years of problem bears in the High Peaks area. Just look on a map and you can see the corridor where some of these scavengers heading north couldn't help but run smack into the highest concentration of free pickin's in the area. In the end it was (and still is) many factors that contributed to the problem, as it will be several factors, under one well implemented plan, that will eradicate the problem. I can't wait to fill my Jerry-can and head in where the water tastes like wine. Anyday now...

 

[masshysteria]

Last fall, myself and two hiking partners spent an hour and a half talking with a NYSDEC wildlife biologist, at the Garden. He was getting his radio telemetry equipment set up to monitor a couple of "problem' bears in the JBL area. Only 2 hours earlier, we had passed the remains of an improperly hung bear bag. It was about 8 ft. up a small hemlock right next to the trail. The only thing the bear didn't take were the baby carrots.

The most striking thing he offered us was the fact that the bears in that area had mostly lost their fear of humans, and were becoming very brazen about foraging for bear bags. The options he mentioned were quite stark, the bear would have to be put down before someone got hurt. In reality, he doubted the bear would survive the fall hunting season, given his loss of wariness for humans.

I will tell you this, this summer, I WILL have a bear canister, regulations or no regulations. We are the 'bear problem', not the bears. I will do what I can to eliminate this 'problem'.

 

[JimB]

We always went to the Newcomb dump when I was a kid (35-40 years ago) and I remember seeing 14 bears there on one Saturday night. People fed them from their hand. Someone mentioned earlier about bears chasing away people to get their food and that reminded me of my son's trip to Flowed Lands last summer where a huge male bear confronted them as soon as they put their gear in the leanto. It made a serious effort to get the food away from them. I had recommended they rent bear cannisters from info on this site and because they had done it they were able to give extra food to some others that weren't so well prepared .