Fire!!

[dave.m]

Peakbagr, cutting tool? Pocket knife? Saw? Fixed blade? Hatchet?

 

[sardog1]

Sardog and Brambor,

Do you actually use those fixed blades for fire making? Yes, but generally only to ensure I can do it when necessary.

Sardog, you mention batoning. Do you actually do that? Almost never for making firewood. (Last time the knife blade was used for this was actually to split a deer pelvis.) Or do you guys solely rely on making shavings for the fire starting. For the most part.

I'm curious about your different approaches to cutting. Sardog, do you really carry a full blown Sven saw? Are there times when you find it better than a small folding saw? Could you describe that? "What we have here is a failure to communicate." You're thinking of something the size of a full-blown bow saw. I carry the fifteen inch version of the folding Sven-Saw.

See above.

 

[DougPaul]

I think they just smear it on. The other container people use is a soda straw. they shove the coated cotton ball in the straw and seal it off

Those look like they are plastic straws. In the "good old days", straws were made of waxed paper which would burn along with the coated cotton. (FWIW, some plastics give of toxic fumes when burned.)

Doug

 

[Dave Bear]

I always have waterproof matches on hand but have never used them or assumed they would mean I have a fire. I carry a very sharp folding knife, most of the time a Buck XLTI. It's discontinued but has a titanium handle with lighteners and finger grooves so it's light and won't slip in your grip even with gloves on. Since the concept was for it to be light it also has a nice hollow grind to it contrary to many of the "survival" knives on the market. Grew up cutting meat so I never have liked a thick blade and never beat on my knife with another object. I use it for a knife and like to cut wood shavings and feather sticks with it.

Only time I needed a fire was when my hiking partner fell through ice and got drenched, whole torso with heavy pack in single digits. Fire that night was on an old propane stove you screw on top of a one pound cannister. Steak, boiled rice and tea to warm the core temp back up. The next day I used the aluminum tins from cooking the steak to start a wood fire to dry our clothes out. Dug down in the snow to solid pack and layed down the tins. Set up cannister stove vertical and lit, then layed it on its side and fed prepped tinder to it with a mild breeze forcing flame toward tinder. Had prepped big wood in advance as well. Three feet high and about three feet long wood snapped between two close trees. Perhaps twenty to thirty minutes to start drying clothes from the night before. Patience needed to keep from over heating or cooking clothes! A wood fire and a clothes line out in the cold is a long ways from an efficient gas clothes dryer!;-)

Scott Mason, the young eagle scout that ended up down in Great Gulf was smart enough to use his antibacterial soap for fire starter since it contains alcohol and is a bit of a gel. I always have that with me and trust that it would be helpful if needed.

Dave

 

[cushetunk]

I carry a knife and a lighter on daytrips. I usually have several lighters if on an overnight.

I almost never light fires except for fun at hardened campsites.

Knowledge of how to build fires seems very useful for anyone camping in remote areas. It is equally useful for knowing when relying on a fire is foolish. For example, I consider myself adept at building fires in a variety of conditions but still doubt whether I could construct an adequate emergency winter fire fast enough to make it worthwhile.

But when I hunt with my cousins on private land that is actively logged... well... let's just say there is a very different understanding about impact on the forest up at hunting camp.

Interestingly, it isn't so much the logging itself that is important here, but the perceived experience by the visitor.

 

[Dave Bear]

When I was very young we worked logging, initially with work horses and later with equipment. Before that for a time my dad worked for the forest service girthing trees. We would spend whole days out working in the woods often and though your clothes got wet most of the time you were fine. Some times in single digits or subzero temps we would light a fire to warm up and dry clothes out a bit while we had lunch since it was the only time during the day you were not moving fast enough to stay warm. A few times we did make emergency fires for events where someone got wet but we had items available to make it easy. A hard working horse throws a fair amount of heat and just getting up close to their chest when they pause would make a big difference. Later with the equipment we would tuck wet gear in places it would warm up or dry.

Now, out on the trail you have to manage your own temp, layering and being careful of perspiring. Your best "fire" out on the trail is your own body heat and perserving that will most often negate the need for any fire. With the small size, and low weight of todays pack stoves it is hard to imagine not carrying at least something to provide warm liquids and foods. With prompt attention to shelter and changing clothes an emergency quickly becomes an education! In the event I mentioned in the earlier post enough outer layers were frozen into solids that it required more than a cook stove to thaw them for the retreat to the vehicle. There were some hardened illegitimate campsites along the trail but any fuel close by had been over foraged to make them a poor option.

 

[dave.m]

Chesetunk, agreed on the issue of perception. When I'm bushwacking in the Pemi somewhere and sort of "in the zone" of fantasy that I'm walking along in a virgin forest, I'm shocked and hurt when I come across a fire ring. Sort of like finding dog pop on the sidewalk in front of my house.

But when I've just walked through a fresh cut or along a freshly made logging road or worse landing used for processing... well, a fire ring doesn't even make my percept-o-meter wiggle.

 

[Dana]

I rarely make a fire, maybe once a year, especially when I go to my favorite winter campsite (a nice dry shallow cave where people have been making fires for probably tens of thousands of years). Once every few years I even cook on the fire. I carry a lighter or two or three, need 'em to light the stove anyway. Magnesium firestarter in the emergency bag, never needed it. Fixed blade knife, use that anyway to cut food. I have a folding saw but I carry that more on day trips for trail pruning than anything else.

 

[Andrew]

me & buddies used to have an extensive trail network on private land. Nightime snowshoe trips and skiing often included a small fire atop a rugged ridge, w/ beers and spirits added to the ambiance.

Nowadays I carry a Silky Pocketboy (tiny/agressive folding saw) as an all around cutter. As most will attest breaking branches to size can be bad for the knees, which leads to the added usefulness of the saw for possible survival. Since I only carry poles for skiing, the saw is always in mind for crafting a traction splint or for an emergency crutch when hiking.

I always have some army surplus solid fuel tablets in my pack since I happen to have hundreds purchased as a replacement for an Esbit stove from a closeout deal. Like to have the pocket stove for a cup of tea next to a stream on the trail, so carry a few extra if fire might be needed.

 

[Peakbagr]

"Peakbagr, cutting tool? Pocket knife? Saw? Fixed blade? Hatchet?"

Multitool.

 

[DougPaul]

I don't think an inch of plastic is going to make enough fumes outdoors to bother anyone.. just don't stick your face in it? i'm sure burning vasaline isn't the best either. If it is hitting the fan i'm sure you'd be worried about the fire more than fumes

Some of those burning plastic fumes can contain phosgene (a military nerve gas used in WW I) and cyanide. The risk depends upon the type of plastic.

http://www.fireengineering.com/arti.../features/toxicology-of-smoke-inhalation.html

Doug

 

[Stan]

Knives - do I use the fixed blade to start the fire? Well, honestly, not really. I just bring it because people say you should have it for overnight outings but honestly I can't think of any situations when I really needed it.

I used my knife once to cut balsam boughs for an unplanned bivuoac bed. Other than that, I use it mostly for slicing cheese and oranges. Wouldn't hike without it.

 

[peakbagger]

Burning wood generates dioxins and furans, both real nasty chemicals compound's so like everything else in life its all a matter of the concentration. Burning PVC definitely cranks out some nasties and incomplete combustion of most any burnable product usually cranks out myriads of potentially toxic fumes. NH had done studies prior to banning homeowner burn barrels, that one homeowner burning one households trash put out more dioxins than a biomass powered power plant.

I personally carry Trioxane bars that were used by the military long ago for some sort of ration heater. They burn like large Esbit tabs that some lightweight backpackers use. They are available on the surplus market. Once lit they dont go out and burn long enough that they can dry out a lot of wet wood. They only get used for emergencies. I have several lifetimes worth of them as they were cheap and had to bought in bulk.

I got a lot of practice lighting fires one spring on the AT for five weeks. The weather was a lot colder up on the ridges then we planned and the first week was record low temps for central VA. I didnt carry a saw and broke all my wood. With a bit of planning its amazing what a little leverage can do plus the activity kept me warm. The most valuable fire making tool was a nylon strap with a loop in it. With it I could walk down the trail or into the woods and pick up dead fall. I would make a small pile with the stems facing in one direction and then loop the strap over the stems, then I would take the other end of the strap wrap it around a small branch stub in a primitive clove hitch and then using the stub for a handle I would pull the pile back to the shelter. It was a lot faster than walking back and forth and in a few trips I had quite pile of wood.


A scouting activity that was always fun was to go snowshoeing in the winter and arbitrarily pick a spot for lunch then have the scouts start a fire with one match. I usually brought hot dogs that could be eaten cold but the incentive for the fire was for the scouts to cook the hot dogs over it. It was quite rare that the first time around that the scouts could do it with one match in the snow but given a little practice they got good at it. I encourage everyone that carries emergency equipment to light a fire to practice a few times as unless you have the skills, even with fire starters it can be difficult to get a fre going in adverse conditions.

 

[dave.m]

Peak bagged, great post.

I would be curious to hear people's trcicks for:
1) minimizing fire ring marks during 3 season fire making

2) making a fire platform for fires in the snow.

 

[Brambor]

On the fire rings
I can make fire in my woodburning stove without any fire ring. The fire is small, really only for one person...good enough to warm up your hands and cook dinner but it works...

Peak bagged, great post.

I would be curious to hear people's trcicks for:
1) minimizing fire ring marks during 3 season fire making

2) making a fire platform for fires in the snow.

 

[marnof]

I've used vintage (sturdier) tin pie plates under my wood-burning stove. It keeps from burning ground vegetation, but I'm not sure how well it would work in snow.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

I have had good luck in winter using green wood to make a small base for a cooking fire near an object that acts as a reflector [or with green wood to build a reflector].

Mine is a smaller scale but similar to this: http://www.wintercampers.com/2012/10/08/building-a-fire-in-the-winter/

From spring to fall, I have a collapsible wood burning stove and I might set it up on a "non river" rock if it is convenient but otherwise I have never really thought about the soil damage . So while there is no fire ring to scatter but I am probably leaving a 4"x4" burn in the topsoil.

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/woodgaz-folding-backpacking-stove.php

also see last post in this thread

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...ums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=36465

 

[Jasper]

Woodstove and tent are in the truck for this weekend. I enjoy winter camping in style and comfort.

 

[Red Oak]

I've used vintage (sturdier) tin pie plates under my wood-burning stove. It keeps from burning ground vegetation, but I'm not sure how well it would work in snow.

While a fire touching the ground in a alpine zone might damage the ground vegetation,it is very normal in a forest zone in the long term scheme of regeneration.I would assume you mean the rogue camping spot where losers might use one spot over and over to do a illegal fire for whatever purpose.The pie plate idea is a very good one though,old pots with drilled holes in the side work great also.

 

[dave.m]

Red Oak, my concern about marking with fires is pretty much as you describe. Charring and soot, especially on rocks (what? rocks? in New England?) and the concern of leaving a visual cue to others that it's ok to reuse the fire spot.

Tom, I'm thinking about something like you show as a form of portable hobo stove. Actually, my interest is less about using the wood fire for cooking and more about just the fun of having a small fire without the problems of fire rings.

Am considering replacing the windscreen/pot holder on my Trangia with a Vargo Hexagon.
http://www.vargooutdoors.com/Hexagon-Backpacking-Wood-Stove

If I'm understanding it right, the Vargo Hexagon can be used as a windscreen/pot holder for a Trangia burner. Mixed reviews on its efficiency as a wood stove, but again, my interest is really in using it as a portable fire place.

Would be interested to hear more about your experiences with your homemade stove, as that is an interesting option.