GPS Cheating?

[percious]

Do any of you out there consider getting your 46er with GPS cheating? Doesn't it remove some of the challenge of having a lack of paths?

I for one am going to try to do all 46 without GPS. Of course, I am familiar with navigation from back in my student pilot days...

What do you guys think?

-percious

 

[jbrown]

I don't have a GPS and don't plan on buying one any time in the near (or moderately distant...) future.

I have only done a couple of "trailless" peaks so far, but didn't really find the need for navigation much at all. I have had to use my map and compass more in the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness than in the Dacks.

So, yes, I'm planning on doing the 46 without the aid of GPS.

Josh

 

[kalless]

Maybe cheating is the wrong word. Hiking is a truly personal experience. How can you cheat?

I consider as part of my experience of (eventually) climbing all of the 46 that I would not need GPS. Plus, I've never found a real need for GPS in the High Peaks. Compass is fine with me. As someone who uses GPS for work, I'm real happy to leave it home when I go hiking.

However, I probably would consider bringing it along as backup if I were going into a truly trailless area.

-kalless

 

[Rick]

I did my first round and went 1/3 of the way through my second, winter round and didn't use a GPS.

I cannot wait to use it on the peaks now, as I like to download the bits of data and see my route on a NG topo map.

I don't think it's cheating though - Just different levels of purism.

If you were truly a purist, You could apply the same logic to an altimeter or perhaps even a map and compass (Extreme), as all are mechanical means by which we try to determine wear we are and where we should be heading.

 

[ripple]

To some it may be cheating, to others it isn't. Hike your own hike!

 

[percious]

I do consider supplimental oxy cheating. If I were to climb Everest, it would be under my own lung power. What can I say, I'm a purist. I usually don't even wear a watch out there...

-percious

 

[Silverback]

Just gives me something to play with on a long hike. Mavs is right, tough not to find one of those peaks these days.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

I agree with Rick:

You could apply the same logic to an altimeter or perhaps even a map and compass (Extreme), as all are mechanical means by which we try to determine wear we are and where we should be heading

So, no... using a GPS isn't cheating. I basically use my GPS as a toy to find waypoints and geo-caches around town. As a safety device, I bring my GPS when I'm solo hiking above treeline for extended periods.

Now, using oxygen on Everest... that's cheating

 

[SherpaKroto]

I use a GPS. I can read a map and compass, and have been able to do so since I was 11. Am I cheating? Who cares. I found my way around before I had one, and I still can. What can I say? I like gadgets. I also print out custom maps whenever I head off trail (and most times even when I don't). I also use the profiles that my mapping software gives me to get a quicker fix on my position.

And other times, I don't turn it on, take out a map or compass.

My favorite use for it: finding trailheads. I can't stand getting lost while driving to the trailhead.

BTW, I drive a car also. I'd guess the old timers who had to hoof it either by foot, horse, etc, would say I was cheating

 

[insight]

My favorite use for it: finding trailheads. I can't stand getting lost while driving to the trailhead.

haha SO true! I don't own a GPS, but my hiking experience is fairly limited to a few hikes in the Catskills and Adirondacks, and a bunch of small day hikes out west, mostly around the Whitney/Lone Pine, Mojave, and Death Valley areas - certainly easy stuff for the non-experienced, and not enough to warrant the use of GPS.

But trying to find a new trailhead has proven quite a challenge for me nearly every time in the past.. How welcome a GPS would be for that!

 

[trailbiscuit]

In the climbing community, it's called "style". The mountaineers that I have read about who climb Mount Everest or other 8000m peaks without oxygen, i.e. Ed Viesturs and others, talk about the use of oxygen just "not feeling right." So, it's not really a matter of cheating, but a matter of climbing the peak in the manner that feels right to them. Same with the amount or type of protection used.

Is using a GPS cheating? Maybe to some. Is using hiking boot cheating? Maybe to some. It's all what works best for you.

Oh, and like SherpK, I have also been known to use a car to get to the trailhead.

 

[Peakbagr]

There are are a tiny handful of climbers able to summit the taller 8000m peaks without Oxygen. Those that do have the correct combination of oxygen uptake(genetically endowed), climbing skill, determination and luck.

I'm an enthusiastic reader of expedition books and climbers who speak about climbing these peaks without supplemental oxygen are usually those who start with off-the-chart oxygen uptakes.
Its a subtle way they set themselves apart from the rest of us, who, no matter how skilled or determined, would kill themselves to do K2 or Everert without supplemental oxygen.

I'm a huge admirer of Rheinhold Messner, Ed Viesturs and others who climb these peaks "by fair means". That said, they are on a different level than 99.999% of other climbers, but its a bit of snobbery IMHO.

 

[bobandgeri]

We take a long a GPS on most hikes so we can record the route and profile of the hike. For above treeline hikes we always plot the route so we can use it as a safety tool if needed. We also take along a cell phone for emergancy use. If we could afford one of the personal EPIRB devices we'd probably takle that along as well - just in case. If utilizing the available safety tools is considered cheating then we weill be proud to be called cheaters.

FYI - I believe that folks that climb summits like Everest use all the tools they can including two-way radios, ladders, sherpa's, and pre-strung ropes.

The climbers that were just pulled off of Rainier (http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/05/18/climbers.stranded.ap/index.html) used a cell phone to call for help. Athough it is very sad that helps was not able to reach the injured climber in time, I believe they are well known and respected, adn peiople would not refer to them as cheaters.

 

[Mark_151]

In the climbing community, it's called "style". <SNIP> . Same with the amount or type of protection used.

I once had a climbing partner who was "old school", and amongst other things, he refused to use bug spray or head nets at the crags. His reasoning was that the bugs were part of the environment and using artificial means to keep them at bay cheapened the climbing experience.

My retort was "Yeah, but you're holding the rope that's keeping ME alive!!" That wasn't enough to get him to make a concession to style. What finally did it was copious amounts of "penalty slack" dialled into his seconds.

 

[CaptCaper]

I find it's much more harder to program in a route and make maps to use with the GPS, than just taking and using a map and compass and making it all come together. Thus making the hiking more of a challange for me. I believe that's one reason why a lot of people don't want to get involved with it even though it could save there butt some day

I don't care about cheating. It keeps my hikes much more interesting not to mention the life saving factor it gives period. I wouldn't hire a Capt. who doesn't like them or doesn't know how to use one.

Anything that floats your boat.

 

[bobmak]

I still haven't purchased or used a GPS. So far I have been able to get along OK both here and out west with a map and compass, so I'll probably stick with that. But if someone else decides to use a GPS, that's their choice, I don't think I'd call it cheating. I am just waiting for the GPS to eveolve into the "trail computer" so you can email your friends and check your stocks while hiking. Technology marches onward.

 

[ajtiv]

Playing devil's advoacate I just hiked SW Hunter and spent 1.5 hours searching the summit for the cannister with a GPS, first time there and solo.

My GPS has maps that are marginal at best. The summit was not even on the unit. As someone was kind enough to point out after my trail report the USGS maps are more accurate.
If I had that map I would have found the cannister more easily because I would have been able to know where I was hiking to the "Summit."
So I think the GPS in this one specific instance was a handicap a better map would have been cheating.
I also use it for post hiking data. I think it is a lot of fun seeing my tracks all over the place it is very comical seeing it in print. You would be surprised how many extra miles I log in on a 6 mile bushwack.
I think it much a better toy than a tool.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

We're just hiking

When Herb, George, and Bob (46-Rs #1,2,and 3) did their chimbing in the 1920's, they used the best gear and equipment that was available to them. That's all that we are doing if we use a navigational aid such as a GPS receiver. You could put modern hiking boots and all synthetic fabrics in the same "cheating" category if you want, but what's the point? As long as you don't get dropped off on the summit in a chopper, you're just hiking and climbing up a mountain.

 

[SherpaKroto]

ajtiv: a GPSR is a tool, much more than a toy (although it is a fun one to play with). Don't get me wrong, but expecting to find a canister by using only a GPSR is like expecting to drive a nail with the palm of your hand. You might get lucky, but then again... (EDIT: I just reread this, and it sounds harsh - wasn't meant towards you, but more a generalization of what some expect they will get out of using a GPSR - sorry!) By the time I get on the trail, I am as familiar as possible about the route I intend to take (whether on-trail or off), particularly if I'm the so called leader, or solo. I leave my house with 2 sets of maps, one a commercial version, the other a closer, more detailed version of the difficult sections (i.e. summits, ledges, slides, etc.). Often times, I leave my set in the car (overkill), and only take the commercial ones. I never leave my compass behind, and carry 2 in winter. Yes I take along my GPSR, but often don't use it. Post'rBoy never lets me forget how I'm cheating. In the same way he drives a Toyota and I drive a Subaru, it's personal preference - different tools for the same job.

Some folks have a great sense of direction. I don't. My instincts sometimes fail me. When I'm tired my judgment is further clouded. It is reassuring to me that I always have the option of checking my progress against the GPSR. To me, it's a tool that allows me to focus on other things going on around me, instead of rehashing my route decisions.

I decided to buy my GPSR after a winter whiteout traverse from Edmands col to Lowe's Path. There was no apparent trail, staying on the Gulfside left us in the teeth of the wind, so we were solely on map and compass. I kept second guessing myself for the entire trip which made it feel a lot longer than it actually was (my brother and I both had opinions of what direction would be the most efficient). We both kept thinking that we had overshot Lowe's Path, and were above King Ravine (as it turned out, we hit Lowe's within 100 feet of where we expected to). With the ability of getting a fix from 3 or more known waypoints (Adams, Grey Knob, Crag Camp, Jefferson), I could have verified my position quickly, reassuring myself (and my brother) that we were on the right track, and kept myself (and him) calmer. To me that is what makes it a valuable tool. It allows me another source to consult before letting my mind play tricks on me.

I guess when I next hike with Arm, I'll have to keep the GPSR off

 

[Remix]

Just another luddite stab at anything electronic......