gray jays in the Whites: seasonal?

[arghman]

I'd always thought gray jays hung out at particular summits where they expected hikers with food, e.g. the Crawford Notch area, particularly Mts Webster & Jackson... until this July when I went there, and there weren't any. Ran into some this Saturday on Old Speck.

are they in the White Mtns this time of year (Sep/Oct) only?

 

[onrhodes]

Nope.

I hiked Willey, Field and Tom in July and we were feeding them on top of Field for about 1/2 hour that day.

 

[Puck]

I'd always thought gray jays hung out at particular summits where they expected hikers with food, e.g. the Crawford Notch area, particularly Mts Webster & Jackson... until this July when I went there, and there weren't any. Ran into some this Saturday on Old Speck.

are they in the White Mtns this time of year (Sep/Oct) only?

To my knowledge all corvids (crow, jay family) do not migrate. The populations may shift a little within thier distribution.

 

[marty]

The Bigelows and the Kennebago Mountains in Western Maine are loaded with them. Seen them in early spring and late summer. I also have run into a bunch in the Willey Range in NH.

 

[hockeycrew]

I've also seen some on Starr King a couple weekends ago.

According to Hinderland's

does not migrate but during the fall and winter may cover quite extensive areas in search of adequate support

Hinderland's Who's Who Gray Jay

 

[Flatlander_SG]

I've seen them on Mounts Pierce, Hight, and the intersection leading to West Bond...also Mt. Monadnock...all during the warmer months.

 

[TDawg]

Jays

I just did the Carter Range this past weekend and there was one on Hight I fed for half an hour. Also there were 3 on North Carter all hangin around at once!

Here's a pic of the one on Mt. Hight with the Baldfaces in the distance.

 

[SteveHiker]

Here's one from June on Old Speck. Won't take no for an answer.

 

[forestgnome]

gray jay photo trick

I see gray jays in all seasons, also. The first time I experienced them I called them 'mountain doves' because they were so freindly as I sat and had a snack. I looked them up as soon as I got home, saw the nickname 'camprobber'..

Two pics here.. first one is my wife in summer, the second one is winter on Crawford Path. I focus/meter on my hand then wait for the jay. You can get them inches from your face!

 

[JCE]

love the gray jays...

I love the gray jays!

Seen them on Webster, Star King, and a few other places. We always take extra pretzels just for them - wish there were more....

 

[sierra]

Im a White mtn man for sure born and bred, anywho, I was out in CO on MT Elbert ( tallest pk in Co ) and just below treeline I stopped for a snack, 3 or 4 grey Jays came in and joined me, I fell in love with them in the Whites over the years and seeing them in CO was well, inspirering and reminded me of home.

 

[Artex]

The first time I saw one, I thought it was a chickadee on steroids. Cool birds.

I saw one last New Year's at the lookout between Zealand Hut and Zealand Mt.

Click here for a picture. Last picture at the bottom.

 

[ripple]

I could be wrong on this, but I thought feeding wild animals was a big No No, or is that just for bear?

 

[DougPaul]

I could be wrong on this, but I thought feeding wild animals was a big No No, or is that just for bear?

It is officially frowned upon, but many can't resist the cute little beggars.

BTW, much human food alters the bacteria in the animal's gut. In some cases, this compromises their ability to digest their natural food setting them up for later starvation. In other words, the feeders are killing the animals with kindness. (Info source: rangers in seveal national parks.)

If you _must_ feed them, feed them their natural foods (eg seeds for Clark's Nutcrackers, chipmunks, and ground squirrels) not human snacks.

Doug

 

[Mike P.]

Seen them in all seasons, appear they like certain type of vegetation, altitude driven - Boreal forest

I've seen them from Starr King to Liberty in NH & just below Chimney Pond in BSP that would correlate with Sierra seeing them below treeline on Elbert which would have been at least twice the Liberty elevation

 

[Puck]

It is officially frowned upon, but many can't resist the cute little beggars.

BTW, much human food alters the bacteria in the animal's gut. In some cases, this compromises their ability to digest their natural food setting them up for later starvation. In other words, the feeders are killing the animals with kindness. (Info source: rangers in seveal national parks.)

If you _must_ feed them, feed them their natural foods (eg seeds for Clark's Nutcrackers, chipmunks, and ground squirrels) not human snacks.

Doug

LNT does state that wild animals should not be fed. However, gray jays have made it a point to exploit humans for food. The links that have already been provided show that these birds have frequented lumber camps etc for food. If we were to stop feeding them thier populations will drop and perhaps receed from thier current range. The same could be said for the tuffed titmouse and cardinal, if we stopped feeding them at our feeders thier range could drop back to the south.

Doug I am not sure if I agree with your statement about altered gut bacteria. I would like to see more about it...I will keep looking. I have not seen anything in the bird clubs that I belong to or in the literature. There has not been a change in the NH gray jay population that would suggest that this is a species of concern.

That said...feeding birds can put them at risk. currently the house finch, purple finch and evening grosbeak populations have been effected by a conjunctivitus. The transmission vector is not understood. Knowing that these birds come together at feeders may suggest this could be one way.
There is also an avian pox (same viral family aas small pox, cowpox, monkey pox) that is transmitted bird to bird.
Salmonella, aspergillosis and trichomoniasis are caused by bacteria, fungus or protist respectively, all can come from dirty feeders. So if you have feeders keep them clean...if you hand feed gray jays...wash your hands.

 

[ripple]

. If we were to stop feeding them thier populations will drop and perhaps receed from thier current range.
QUOTE]


Is thier current range and population larger then nature intended it to be b/c they have become dependent on human food? If so,then a population drop, and receeding range should be looked at as putting things back the way they should be. Same reasoning as the people who argued in favor of brining back the wolf.

 

[Puck]

. If we were to stop feeding them thier populations will drop and perhaps receed from thier current range.
QUOTE]


Is thier current range and population larger then nature intended it to be b/c they have become dependent on human food? If so,then a population drop, and receeding range should be looked at as putting things back the way they should be. Same reasoning as the people who argued in favor of brining back the wolf.

Perhaps I mispoke. I should have said "may drop." This needs to be looked at. From what I could see from the historical data for the Audubon CBC, the gray jay population hit a peak in 1965 long before the winter hiking peakbagging became popular. (The CBC yields important data but it is still a census and prone to errors and mistakes for reporting although much is done to control for that.) Before 1952 there is no data. If feeding these birds has extended the range during the winter months we should see an increase in the population, which is not the case. These birds seem to be well contained in thier habitat in NH. 3500'+ and spruce and fir forests meaning they are not encroaching out of thier range. This may mean that hikers feeding them have not had an impact or there are other factors involved.

So the short of it...no the gray jay is not out of its range and 'natural' population.

 

[DougPaul]

LNT does state that wild animals should not be fed. However, gray jays have made it a point to exploit humans for food.

Many animals have to work hard for food and will happily beg for easy food from humans. Doesn't mean it is good for them in the long term.

The links that have already been provided show that these birds have frequented lumber camps etc for food. If we were to stop feeding them thier populations will drop and perhaps receed from thier current range. The same could be said for the tuffed titmouse and cardinal, if we stopped feeding them at our feeders thier range could drop back to the south.

Perhaps human feeding is allowing an unnaturally large population to exist (ie overpopulation) or an unnatural range.

One of the reasons that geese are such an urban problem is that people feed them which allows them to stay over winter and lose the knowledge of how to migrate.

Doug I am not sure if I agree with your statement about altered gut bacteria. I would like to see more about it...I will keep looking.

Don't have a reference I can easily point to--info from rangers (or info sources) in western parks: "feeding chipmunks shortens their lives by 1/3" (Bend area OR?), info on gut bacteria in ground squirrels Colorado national parks(?). Part of the standard conservation messages they try to teach visitors.

I have not seen anything in the bird clubs that I belong to or in the literature. There has not been a change in the NH gray jay population that would suggest that this is a species of concern.

Don't know specifically about birds--I carefull used the phrase "some animals" in my previous post.

I would look to biologists rather than clubs. Clubs generally exist to enjoy something first, then conserve it second.

That said...feeding birds can put them at risk. currently the house finch, purple finch and evening grosbeak populations have been effected by a conjunctivitus. The transmission vector is not understood. Knowing that these birds come together at feeders may suggest this could be one way.
There is also an avian pox (same viral family aas small pox, cowpox, monkey pox) that is transmitted bird to bird. Salmonella, aspergillosis and trichomoniasis are caused by bacteria, fungus or protist respectively, all can come from dirty feeders. So if you have feeders keep them clean...if you hand feed gray jays...wash your hands.

This is about being an unnatural disease vector--overpopulation due to unnatural feeding can also set them up for disease epidemics. And some of the food offered by humans (such as white bread or human snacks) is unlikely to be the best for them either.

Feeding the animals also habituates them to humans and encourages them to become pests. This includes bears as well as birds and ground squirrels.

Doug

 

[Puck]

Many animals have to work hard for food and will happily beg for easy food from humans. Doesn't mean it is good for them in the long term.

The corvid family (jays, crows and ravens) has been intermingled with humans for a very, very long time. They have done very well by us. So what is long term in this case...80,000 years and counting. (Iwould rather keep this focused on the birds at hand)


[/QUOTE]Perhaps human feeding is allowing an unnaturally large population to exist (ie overpopulation) or an unnatural range.[/QUOTE]
As I had stated this does not seem to be the case for the gray jay. But for the sake of argument do we have an unatrual population of american crows? if so how would we know? Crows are not intentionaly fed by humans. They are smart enough to learn how to get food from us by picking garbage, eating carrion, etc.. also interesting to note what they learn they teach to others.

[/QUOTE]
I would look to biologists rather than clubs. Clubs generally exist to enjoy something first, then conserve it second.[/QUOTE]
to be specific...Ct Ornithology Association and NH Bird Club...both full of biologist, most if not all members are conservationist. Also, guests speakers are field ornithologist shring thier research. Doug don't you think your comment was rather unfounded and condescending?


[/QUOTE]This is about being an unnatural disease vector--overpopulation due to unnatural feeding can also set them up for disease epidemics. And some of the food offered by humans (such as white bread or human snacks) is unlikely to be the best for them either.

Feeding the animals also habituates them to humans and encourages them to become pests. This includes bears as well as birds and ground squirrels.

Doug[/QUOTE] I agree. Many think bird feeders are harmless. It has become a huge hobby and industry. As I have posted earlier feeder efforts have allowed some populations and distributions to expand. Could this ever be rolled back? I don't know. So far most species have not been effected besides the house finch. However, some species have declined and no explanation has been given.