Gripe about North Face jacket

[skiguy]

The two exceptions? Eddie Bauer and Abercrombie & Fitch. It is amazing and appalling what was done to these honored names. There was a time when Eddie personally outfitted polar explorers and early Himalayan climbers. I count myself fortunate to have seen the headquarters store back in the early 80's, when they were still selling very high quality down clothing and the like. Never made it to New Yawk in time to see the other one.

E. B. changed the world of outdoor clothing pre and post WWII. He basically invented the Down Jacket inspired by almost freezing to death after falling through ice as a kid. He also manufactured those leather down insulated bomber jackets that you saw the guys in the B52's (not the Band) wearing on their missions. His clothing issued to the soldiers during WWII was one of the only privately manufactured items that actually carried the label inside. After the war the guys had really liked his stuff and went out and bought lots more.
The Karakoram line was infamous. In the Late eighties Spiegel bought them and lots changed.

 

[Umsaskis]

Now I understand why I went into a McDonalds the other day and found a bus-full of middle school students, and at least 30% of them had TNF fleeces on. I didn't know TNF was following this trend. I've been disappointed over the years that LLBean has done this, but I continue to find good quality stuff there if I select the right items. A person just has to shop around to get the right stuff - I ended up getting backpacks and boots from Bean, pants, jacket and gloves from EMS, snowshoes from Ben Meadows, tents from Campmor, crampons from e-bay and - - a Coleman stove from WalMart (oh, didn't you know they have a high-quality camping section too? ).

 

[bruno]

Now I understand why I went into a McDonalds the other day and found a bus-full of middle school students, and at least 30% of them had TNF fleeces on. I didn't know TNF was following this trend. .

heehee! i think the "trend" north face is followin' is outfittin' the li'l fatties eatin' at mcdonalds! that explains why clothes are cut so big nowadays!!

 

[Dave Lang]

i too noticed on a recent trip to the city, that the hip hop group seemed to be wearing a lot of pricey TNF clothing. i was unaware of any company ownership changes. if i were a company exec, i would agressively go after that market. it makes makes a lot of cents! yes, the pun was intended.

 

[David Metsky]

TNF and Sierra Designs were both owned by other companies back in the late 80's. Both had gone into very bad financial states and were picked up by a holding company. Since then, both have changed hands at least once each. I don't think either are independent any more. A friend was a VP at TNF and later the president of SD, she has some great stories about the industry.

TNF gear has definately caught on in cities. That has never bothered me, everyone is entitled to have a good raincoat. I question wearing down jackets in the rain without a shell, but as long as the owners are happy. But I wear my TNF fleece to work more often then I wear it to the mountains.

The market for high end gear is tiny, it's almost impossible for a company to remain profitable if that's all they make. Many have tried, all have failed. The ideal situation for most of us would be that they continue to make high end gear for us and balance that out with lower cost gear for the masses that is still better than dept store stuff. But someone at the company has to champion the high end stuff because it's hard to justify just by looking at the bottom line.

-dave-

 

[spaddock]

But someone at the company has to champion the high end stuff because it's hard to justify just by looking at the bottom line.

The high end line is easily justified, IMO. The high end line drives the lower end line, it makes TNF cool. Joe CitySlicker sees an Everest special where they are wearing TNF gear and sleeping in TNF tents. Wanting to be like them, he goes out and buys some TNF gear on the low end for the label and to be associated with "Extreme" sports.

The high end line possibly pays off for it's advertising value alone.


-Shayne

 

[dave.m]

The high end line possibly pays off for it's advertising value alone.

I think the lessons of the commercial success of Eddie Bauer, Abercrombie and Fitch and Timberland (heck, toss in Jansport too, although that's sad) is that commercial success has absolutely nothing to do with high end.

I'm actually old enough to have been in the A&F store in NYC back in the day. Lots of oak cabinets and bamboo fly rods.

 

[zeke]

high end ... mass market

The ideal situation for most of us would be that they continue to make high end gear for us and balance that out with lower cost gear for the masses that is still better than dept store stuff. -dave-

Yes, agreed. The problem (as in the original complaint about the current TNF Mountain Light jacket) is when a product has taken a big step toward the fashion crowd but is still REPRESENTED as one of "our most technically advanced products. Designed for expedition use….” If the jacket has been redesigned to appeal more to fashion-conscious retail customers, that's fine. TNF is in business to make money. But don't then advertise an obviously inferior product as if it's the first choice for expedition use.

zeke

 

[cushetunk]

How many people are finding that their gear can't hack it on their trips?

I mean, it's just wearing some clothes and walking.

 

[spaddock]

I think the lessons of the commercial success of Eddie Bauer, Abercrombie and Fitch and Timberland (heck, toss in Jansport too, although that's sad) is that commercial success has absolutely nothing to do with high end.

But would they have achieved commercial success without having been high end first? Did having excellent gear bring up their brand value so much that they were able to introduce the lower end with more credibility than a new company starting with low end from the beginning?

By gearing the majority of the TNF gear to the low end, do they risk devaluing their hard earned brand?

To be perceived as high-end nowadays it seems you just have to sign a high profile athlete to a multi-million dollar endorsement contract. Not sure if hiking has such a person.

Ideas to add to the discussion anyways...


-Shayne

 

[sleeping bear]

How many people are finding that their gear can't hack it on their trips?

I mean, it's just wearing some clothes and walking.

Great point!

We could all go back to wool pants and rubber coats, muklucks, and wooden snowshoes. It might even be more fun!

Although, I did have a new pair of cheap china made Vasque boots completely blow out (same ripped seam on both boots, foam? popping out from the tongue, not pretty) on the second of five days on Isle Royale.

 

[DougPaul]

We could all go back to wool pants and rubber coats, muklucks, and wooden snowshoes. It might even be more fun!

Some of us still wear wool pants...

Doug

 

[sleeping bear]

okay okay, I sometimes wear my wool pants, and almost always pick the wool sweater over fleece. I almost bought a pair of muklucks last winter and my husband has wooden snowshoes. It's the charm, a lot of people would scoff at the idea. Now, the rubber coat, I don't have one of those...

 

[cushetunk]

Great point!

We could all go back to wool pants and rubber coats, muklucks, and wooden snowshoes. It might even be more fun!

Wool pants: LL Bean. Check.
Rubber coat: Grundens ("Eat fish, wear Grundens"). Check.
Wooden snowshoes: LL Bean. Check.
Mukluks: Stegers. On the wish list.

Looking like an old fogey before my time. Priceless.

 

[BrentD22]

North Face Jacket

I was at the Natick Mall (my wife's idea). As I walked around I started to notice that I saw like a hundred people wearing them. I can't believe that all those people paid the $150-$165 for the "real deal".

Does anyone know if there is a version that looks like the real one, but is a lesser model or something?

EDIT - I ask because I don't want to wrongfully purchase what I think it the real deal and is not. I understand that the denali is the common model worn and sold. Is there a lesser model sold?

 

[HighHorse]

heehee! i think the "trend" north face is followin' is outfittin' the li'l fatties eatin' at mcdonalds! that explains why clothes are cut so big nowadays!!

damn bruno, you hate fat people huh?

 

[bruno]

damn bruno, you hate fat people huh?

"hate" is a tad strong! but an amused contempt? guilty. i'd say lay off the potato chips and get off the couch and quit readin' all those catalogs and thinkin' ya can't go out without all the latest gear. i mean 300 dollars for a freakin' raincoat (chouinard oughta be embarassed)? c'mon! ol' john muir could hike circles around most all of us and all he had was some old clothes and a stale loaf o' bread!! but to each his own, hey!!

 

[giggy]

EDIT - I ask because I don't want to wrongfully purchase what I think it the real deal and is not. I understand that the denali is the common model worn and sold. Is there a lesser model sold?

brent - go to ebay and type in north face denali - loads for sale - much less than the MSRP if 160ish.

I would bet many of these are fakes. There was some controversy over the last couple of years of TNF stuff being faked and sold- much like the dudes in NYC streets sell the fake vitton (sp??) purses, etc.

but if you look hard - you probably can get a real one for cheaper.

 

[coldfeet]

I got into hiking app 2 years ago when my wife told me that she can get 50% off NF products since she is a VF employee (they bought her company that manufacutred ladies under garments) (they also own Vans shoes and Jansport, I think Lee dungarees and other things)....

The night i was there I didn't buy a gor tex jacket because even with the 50% off I couldn't justify spending $150 on a shell....instead i bought a light fleece (not denali) and their hyvent jacket for $150....i ended up using that combo when i started hiking and used it last winter at the NH gathering...(i went to the store originally to buy a jacket because mine was looking crappy, i saw a slide show presented by the backpacker magazine that night and gotted mentally hooked.)

But living in the suburbs of LI near NYC, all i see are pink, baby blue, and a million other colors of NF fleece walking around...i also see them in my school where 99% of the kids get "free" lunch....if I'm a stockholder I'm real happy with the company...
ps...my wife and her friends bought those colors for my kids and theirs..but i have taken them hiking...the kids not the colors...

 

[Rugger]

We could all go back to wool pants...

Absolutely nothing beats Johnson Wool pants and suspenders!