Hydrofracking for natural gas in Catskills

[Mike P.]

They all say the fracking fluid is proprietary but if you asked each company they would say their fluid is the best & they wouldn't change it so why not tell how much benzene & toulene is in the fracking fluid?

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see this having a happy ending for the environment. How they can crack shale & know exactly where every tiny crack occurs is amazing!

 

[TCD]

Fluid is typically 99% water

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

Here's a report on the 1%

http://democrats.energycommerce.hou...ments/Hydraulic Fracturing Report 4.18.11.pdf

 

[Little Rickie]

http://democrats.energycommerce.hou...ments/Hydraulic Fracturing Report 4.18.11.pdf

I read this last night it is pretty black and white poison and it seems quite clear it can't be contained or recycled with any reliable degree of safty.

So it seems they are hard headed, bound and determined to put as many holes in the ground, as fast as they can, before legislation and regulations can slow them down. Having been in Pa a few times in the last year or so the high level of activitry along with: trucks, water, drilling sites, staging areas, along with supportive business, have sprung up like gold towns in California.

 

[DougPaul]

So it seems they are hard headed, bound and determined to put as many holes in the ground, as fast as they can, before legislation and regulations can slow them down. Having been in Pa a few times in the last year or so the high level of activitry along with: trucks, water, drilling sites, staging areas, along with supportive business, have sprung up like gold towns in California.

It's about maximizing the gas company's profits--energy is big business.

The cost of pollution and local damage is minor (to the gas companies) compared to the revenue from a well. And the more wells they can get into production before restrictions are in place, the better...

Doug

 

[ColdRiverRun]

Another one of the issues brought up with drilling deep holes seems to now have some evidence to look into:

Video

 

[Craig]

Here's a report on the 1%

http://democrats.energycommerce.hous... 4.18.11.pdf

Thanks for this link. It fills in a missing piece of the puzzle for me.

I read this last night it is pretty black and white poison and it seems quite clear it can't be contained or recycled with any reliable degree of safty.

Actually, according to the engineering report supplied by Eddie there are numerous disposal or treatment options.

Flowback of the fracturing fluid occurs over a few days to a few weeks following hydraulic fracturing with the flowrate as high as 25,000 gal/d on the first day. The flowback water is typically impounded at the surface for subsequent disposal, treatment, or reuse. Due to the large water volume, high concentration of dissolved solids, and complex physical-chemical composition of the flowback water, there is growing public concern about management of flowback water because of the potential for human health and environmental impacts associated with the release of untreated or inadequately treated flowback water to the environment.

Treatment technologies and management strategies for flowback water are selected based on constraints established by regulations, economics of implementation, technology performance, and final disposal alternatives. Flowback water management options in Marcellus shale are additionally governed by high concentrations of total dissolved solids (TDS), geography, and a lack of physical infrastructure.

The article goes on to list multiple disposal/treatment options. Interesting read. Warning: your eye may roll into the back of your head.

 

[Little Rickie]

Thanks for this link. It fills in a missing piece of the puzzle for me.



Actually, according to the engineering report supplied by Eddie there are numerous disposal or treatment options.





The article goes on to list multiple disposal/treatment options. Interesting read. Warning: your eye may roll into the back of your head.

But how well do they work and how much water is recovered? Read the whole report it also states the reliabililty and risks of those methods along with how a lot of water stays in the ground. The report is clear. It's not a safe practice and could be a lot safer but there is no call to action so politics will grind on slowly until the big profits are skimmed off.

If you're so confident then drink deep of the water recovered, drink the milk from the cows that graze or the corn grown in the fields where there has been over flow and eat the fish from the local streems and ponds downhill from a drilling site. THEN I'll be impreessed with the arguments that it's safe.

Oh but it's not yor back yard is it?

 

[brianW]

Oh but it's not yor back yard is it?

Just like clean wind power off the coast of the Cape, or a nuclear power plant, or a........ NIMBY. I personally would rather see this country actually come up with and do a plan to become energy independent. Just like Cape Wind, this is a possible way to start doing this. Also, my opinion is that we (US/Canada) would do less harm to the environment extracting energy sources here then some middle eastern/African country.

 

[eddie]

Fluid is typically 99% water

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

Here's a report on the 1%

http://democrats.energycommerce.hou...ments/Hydraulic Fracturing Report 4.18.11.pdf

You should hear the recent radio ads in Pennsylvania paid for by the industry, goes something like this, "Now the EPA wants to put regulations on the Marcellus industry that will kill jobs in Pennsylvania."
It's that 1% that the Frackers won't disclose that will kill us.

 

[Little Rickie]

 

[Peakbagr]

For a sense of what to expect in the rural areas with hydrofracking.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/opinion/sunday/fracking-on-my-land.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

 

[nietzschescat]

Thanks for the link. It was a good story and honest about a complicated issue. I hope I never have to see it in the Catskills, but someday it will all be ruins in the woods for hikers to find and hopefully we can still drink the water.

 

[Peakbagr]

Crime is up in natural gas boom towns

http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Crime-is-up-in-gas-boom-towns-2238332.php

 

[Little Rickie]

Thanks for the link. It was a good story and honest about a complicated issue. .

He did it for the $, everyone does, while he seems to regret it there is no going back. Hopefully his story will help others make better decissions...if they can see past the $.

Who here would turn down several hundred thousand dollars?

 

[daxs]

Its not necessarily greed that makes people do it for the money. It's the fact that they are barely subsisting in areas that are very economically depressed and the money will allow them to keep their heads above water for a bit longer. I am sure Adam can chime in; Tioga and Potter counties in PA are very economically depressed and poor.

 

[1ADAM12]

Its not necessarily greed that makes people do it for the money. It's the fact that they are barely subsisting in areas that are very economically depressed and the money will allow them to keep their heads above water for a bit longer. I am sure Adam can chime in; Tioga and Potter counties in PA are very economically depressed and poor.

Carol,

Although the gas drilling here in PA where I live is bringing jobs to the area and the local restaurants and hotels are now thriving, it really sucks for most local residents. The crime is up for one! Just a few months ago our garage was broken into and my wifes car. I am not saying its the drillers but we have never had an isue before. Most people do not even lock their front doors. That is changing now though.

I have never once in my 9 years of living in the small town of Tioga having to wait 5 minutes in the morning for traffic to pass so I can pull out onto Main Street. This is at like 630am-7am when I leave for work. Times of living in a peaceful small town are now over or at least until they all move onto the next area.

A lot of local land owners are raking in the money with parcels of land that have been in their familes for generations. As we all know money talks and when these land owners see a check for hundreds of thousands of dollars they don't think of re-precussions years from now. A friend of the familes just leased out his farm and was cut a check for $250,000. Although I am against fracking I would have to think hard about that money.

 

[Little Rickie]

Although I am against fracking I would have to think hard about that money.

You're an honest man. I appreciate your candor.

 

[PA Ridgerunner]

I grew up in Wellsboro (Tioga County, PA) and it breaks my heart to see what is happening there. The landscape is scarred, the traffic is absolutely horrendous. Local infrastructure is reaching a breaking point...schools, social services, etc...it's a mess! What was formerly a bucolic little tourist town has been forever changed. Rents are going out of sight with the high demand from the influx of workers. My niece, who works two jobs, and has rented her home for 3 years, recently saw a huge rent increase!! She's now living with her mom. That's the stuff the gas companies (and the very small number of local residents who benefit from this drilling) don't talk about. Local motels and hotels are booked solid...great for them, but what about people who want to visit family or friends, or see that beautiful part of the state? Or the local university?

My wife and I had hoped to return to that area in retirement...now that is off the table. We are currently located in the Town of Dryden (NY) where there is a ban against drilling...and the democrats who supported the ban had a huge victory in last night's election...so it's clear what the majority of people here want...or don't want!

 

[David Metsky]

Moderator Note
Just a reminder that this forum doesn't allow politics. Please discuss the issue as it relates to outdoors activities and leave the politics at the door.

-dave-

 

[Peakbagr]

MODERATOR's NOTE:
I began this thread, add to it regularly, and monitor it daily. I deleted one post and discussed others before being posted.
I see Steve's comments as mentioning who supported what issue, not an endorsement of the Democratic party.