Mountains in the clouds -- comments please

[Mohamed Ellozy]

A couple of days ago I did a hike that should have had spectacular views, and a sunny early morning held great promise. By the time I got out of the village and started gaining elevation low clouds had moved in. Bummer ...

On the way down (now facing the mountains across the valley) I noticed that parts of them were often visible between the clouds. I took a ton of pictures, discarded most, did minor edits on the survivors (Picassa "I'm feeling lucky" plus cropping) and posted the results here. Comments on all welcome!

My main reason for this post, however, is a specific question on zooming/cropping. I took a series of four photos of the Jungfrau gradually taking shape through the clouds, the sequence starts here and you can navigate (arrows on top of page) to the next three.

The first three contain a lot of foreground (my side of the valley); the last one was more zoomed then cropped to just show the mountain. Which is best?

Comments on any of the other photos obviously welcome! When back in the States I will explore options for a course that will allow me to take better photos next year.

 

[Tom Rankin]

A couple of days ago I did a hike that should have had spectacular views, ... Which is best?

Define 'best'. It probably depends on what the objective was. To capture the emergence, the amount of snow on the flanks, the detail of the summit, the placement among the other peaks, etc.

In any case, I think you are better off with those views than the view from my office window!

 

[vegematic]

Usually I would prefer one like the first one because I like to see more of the surroundings, to have more context (my personal preference, it seems most "real" photographers feel otherwise). But the peak seems to blend in and get lost among the clouds in the first one. I'd have to say my preference is for the fourth one, zoomed in on the peak so she really stands out.
My $0.02, and probably not even worth that much.
-vegematic

 

[nartreb]

The fourth pic is by far the most dramatic, for multiple reasons. The first pic comes in a distant second.

Composition - only the fourth really obeys the rule of thirds
Subject - only on the fourth is the tip of the mountain visible
Contrast - much stronger on the fourth. Looks to me like Picasa did some auto-levelling on the fourth one (the brown tone at bottom is a giveaway - would have been greener before adjustments) but not much on the others.

 

[DougPaul]

IMO, the fourth pic would be stronger if the right side were cropped out. (Leave a similar amount of context to the right and left of the exposed peak.) Yes, this suggestion violates the rule of thirds. (Such rules were meant to be broken!)


Pic 12 looks to me like the Eiger. (It has been quite a while since I was there...) We are looking at the west flank--the infamous Nordwand (North Wall) is the dark face on the left. You can compare it to the pics in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiger

The following picture (from the above link) is taken from a similar angle (but with less snow).

Doug

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

IMO, the fourth pic would be stronger if the right side were cropped out. (Leave a similar amount of context to the right and left of the exposed peak.) Yes, this suggestion violates the rule of thirds. (Such rules were meant to be broken!)

I kept the stuff to the right because of the patch of blue sky over the neighboring peak; there was damned little blue sky that day

Probably a distraction, since the Jungfrau is clearly what the photo is about.

I am pretty sure that the "Eiger (??)" photo is indeed the Eiger, but while sitting and shooting my impression was that only the Monch and Jungfrau had come out of the clouds. Hence the (??).

 

[DougPaul]

I kept the stuff to the right because of the patch of blue sky over the neighboring peak; there was damned little blue sky that day

Probably a distraction, since the Jungfrau is clearly what the photo is about.

I found the bit to the right to distract from the main peak. YMMV.

I am pretty sure that the "Eiger (??)" photo is indeed the Eiger, but while sitting and shooting my impression was that only the Monch and Jungfrau had come out of the clouds. Hence the (??).

A number of features line up--I think you can safely remove the "(??)".

Doug

 

[JohnL]

Yes, definitely the Eiger (you can clearly see the Exit Cracks leading up and diagonally left from the White Spider) and yes, number 4 has the most potential as the 'best' shot, however you may want to define it.

I took the liberty of cropping it and this is one way in which I would crop it.

JohnL

 

[Mark Schaefer]

One of the general rules of photography is to have foreground, middle-ground (in the case of the first three photos the clouds), and background. Of these three the first is the most successful owing to the well lit and most prominent foreground. Having a strong foreground provides dimensional depth, but it also importantly provides a sense of place. Further it provides context that you were on another peak and not in a aircraft. Of the first three photos the second gives the most clear view of the summit, but the foreground is not as well lit.

Of the 4 choices I believe the fourth is the most effective. Despite the lack of context that you are hiking and the lack of a strong foreground, the image nonetheless has considerable depth because of the clearing clouds. In essence the clouds became the foreground and background with the Jungfrau as the middle ground. I like that you included the second more distant peak on the right as it adds more depth to the photo. I am OK with JohnL's cropping also.

Cloudy weather can be very frustrating. But when you do get a break and a bit of strong sunlight -- some remarkable images may result. When it happens the results are often better than those on clear blue sky days. At other times you get nothing but mediocre images. But in your case I believe your patience was rewarded with a strong and effective image in the fourth photo.

 

[Woody]

I like photo #3, but the best one is the you like the most.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Many thanks to all for your comments.

Usually I would prefer one like the first one because I like to see more of the surroundings, to have more context ...

One of the general rules of photography is to have foreground, middle-ground (in the case of the first three photos the clouds), and background. Of these three the first is the most successful owing to the well lit and most prominent foreground. Having a strong foreground provides dimensional depth, but it also importantly provides a sense of place. Further it provides context that you were on another peak and not in a aircraft.

Foreground is something I will have to learn to include; currently I tend to zoom on the peak and then crop out any foreground that has managed to slip in

Obvious lesson is to use less zoom. It is possible to crop an unzoomed photo, but impossible to "uncrop" an overzoomed one!

One reason I zoom extensively is that, with autofocus, it is easier to get the focus on the peak if there is no foreground to distract the camera. I must start using aperture priority mode, unfortunately I left the manual in Thornton

 

[DougPaul]

One reason I zoom extensively is that, with autofocus, it is easier to get the focus on the peak if there is no foreground to distract the camera. I must start using aperture priority mode, unfortunately I left the manual in Thornton

After having my camera focus on the wrong thing once too often, I set it to use only the center focus point. I set that on the object that I want in focus, half press (to set focus and exposure), re-aim, and shoot (full press).

IIRC, you are using a P&S. In general, P&Ses use a very limited range of apertures, typ ~F4 to ~F8 to prevent diffraction blurring. Because the lenses are small, they have a much larger depth-of-focus than a 35mm camera at the same F-stop setting.

IIRC, you have a Cannon. If so, the manuals are available online: http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras

Doug

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

I probably know how to find manuals online (I have been known to use Google unaided) but am stuck with a mobile internet connection in the boondocks where most of the time I get nothing better than EDGE. So downloading manuals is, alas, not an attractive option.

No big deal; I am finally starting to learn (motivation is a huge factor). Once back in the States I will consult the cumulative wisdom of VftT about a suitable course or courses (after having RTFMed ).

 

[Grumpy]

...
Obvious lesson is to use less zoom. It is possible to crop an unzoomed photo, but impossible to "uncrop" an overzoomed one!

Careful! The old rule, "compose in the camera," applied to the extent possible still applies in the digital age. Just shoot more frames at different (optical) zoom settings. Digital image memory is cheap and compact.

BTW, in the Jungfrau series I like #4 best. Great shot, and very dramatic. Lower peak to the right provides a sense of scale (height comparison), and I like the cloud formation.

I am an advocate of using longer focal lenses for "scenic" photos like this. Glad to see others seeing the light ... But I don't out-of-hand reject wider-angle shots, either. As Tom R said, above, it all depends on your photographic objectives -- what you are trying to convey visually. I do think it is more difficult to produce dramatic visual results with wider angle shots.

G.