New England Tri-State markers ?

[Tramper Al]

Hey,

So, I have to drive out to Albany on Friday, and am thinking about getting in a hike to the VT-MA-NY tri-state marker. I am considering going in from the south, from Petersburg Pass, and am wondering if anyone around here has done that?

There are two tri-state markers entirely within New England, VT-NH-MA (a bit underwater, technically speaking) and CT-RI-MA (not far off the MST or NST).

Markers of two NE states and another land would be CT-MA-NY (very near Frissell, I've been to this one), MA-VT-NY (my Friday hike), VT-NH-PQ, and NH-ME-PQ.

Before you call me silly for bringing up these border markers, know that there are people who make it their hobby to visit these places.

Check out this cool online book by Jack Parsell. Warning, it's a fairly big pdf.

Crazy, huh?

 

[Rugger]

Since NH "Owns" the Conn. River to the low water point on the VT side, during the summer you would only need to get your toes wet to hit the tri-point of VT-NH-MA. When I was in school at UVM, I took VT geography for an elective since it was an almost guarunteed "A" for Vermonters. The Prof would have a slide show of various sites in VT and one day he had a picture of himself at each of the 4 corners. The difficult one was the NY-VT-QUE point as it is in the middle of Lake Champlain - he was in a boat if i recall (it was 29 years ago!)

 

[Rivet]

Hey,

So, I have to drive out to Albany Friday, and am thinking about getting in a hike to the VT-MA-NY tri-state marker. I am considering going in from the south, from Petersburg Pass, and am wondering if anyone around here has done that?

Yes, you follow the Taconic Trail north from the large parking area at the crest of Route 2. There are old logging roads that head down from the ridge to the spot near the tri-state marker. They are shown as pink on this map...

http://www.williams.edu/CES/hopkins/public/trailmap.htm

You can also bushwack down from the ridge. It's steep, but there's no cliffs or anything and the woods are very open.

 

[Tramper Al]

They are shown as pink on this map...

Thanks! Hugely helpful. Maybe I will bushwhack from the TCT due East down along the VT-NY border to the tri-state marker, then loop back by logging road.

Edit: I will check out those 'open woods', and try to imagine a nice ski glade.

 

[weatherman]

deja VFTT

That sounds like a good plan. Here is a thread link from earlier this year with some specifics (that may look familiar!)

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4366&highlight=tri-state

 

[brianW]

My understanding was that NH and VT don't want the Conn. River because then they would be responsible for the cost of the bridges on there own.

Just a tidbit of info, all the granite stateline mrkers for MA came from a quarry in Fitzwilliam, NH

 

[bcskier]

Can you do me a favor?

Tramper Al,

When you leave the TT and begin your descent down to the marker can you take a look at how "open" the forest seems to you? The northwest-facing valley has the right topography to be a good ski descent if the woods aren't too closed in. I'd appreciate a report of the possibilities if it isn't too much to ask.

Thanks, bcskier

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

I think that state tri-points are really cool. I have visited 28 of the 34 land-based sites (not including international boundaries), where I have found witness posts constructed during the original boundary surveys or re-constructed during more recent GPS surveys. I am using traditional "fair means," which for me consists of maps and compass only, and not GPS. One of the sites that I have visited is a Geo-cache site, and has an army ammo box where people leave trinkets, etc. I am also not using Jack Parsells' book (Web-link noted above), which I understand is excellent. There are also 20 state tri-points located in the middle of rivers, of which I have visited 12 on the shores where two states share a boundary. Also, I have visited Four Corners, the AZ/NM/CO/UT boundary, which has been turned into a fun tourist site by the Hopi Indians.

The MA/RI/CT and MA/CT/NY tri-point witness posts are fairly easy to find. The MA/NH/VT tri-point is not so easy to find, but we think we found it in Vernon, Vermont, as a small concrete post just above the high-water mark of the Connecticut River, which is indeed owned by New Hampshire. As I understand the story, NH bought Vermont's share of the river for $1 in the 1960s or 70s, after years of disputes. But, after the first year of ownership, when NH presented Vermont half of the bill for bridge maintenance, etc., Vermont rightlfully refused to pay. On the other side of the state, NH recently lost in court to Maine for ownership of the land underlying the "Portsmouth" Navy Yard. But, NH is still ranked #1 for "quality of life" in a recent poll.

The MA/NY/VT tri-point took me three tries, with the first attempt from the Taconic Trail from north of Rt. 2, as mentioned above. We found the logging roads on this Friday after Thanksgiving trip, but not the witness post. I recall that the big deciduous trees were spaced pretty far apart on the steep slope that drops from the ridge, but the area was really wet with spring-fed flows. On my second and third attempts a couple years later in January, I hiked for a mile or so along logging roads through Hopkins Memorial Forest from the road leading north from Williamstown, Mass., towards Pownall, Vermont. The Geology Dept. at Williams College has made a very detailed topo map of the forest, with the tri-point exactly located, but the Berlin, NY, 7.5-minute topo is also fine. Hint: this witness post is still difficult to find without GSP, especially once the foliage is full, but remember to look up!

My guess is that numerous attendees at the NH2005 Highpointers convention at Purity Spring Resort in East Madison and Mount Washington will take some time to visit the four New England state tri-points, as well as NH's other nine county high points, and other New England state high points. The Web-link below is the NH2005 convention page on the Highpointers site.

http://highpointers.org/archives/category/conventions/2005-mount-washington/

 

[Tramper Al]

Brief Trip Report

So, thanks everyone for your help on this.

Yesterday, I headed off from Petersburg Pass on the Taconic Crest Trail. As it turns out, the 1997 topo map shows only one trail/road leaving the TCT to the east before reaching the NY-VT border, and the map shows it winding down very close to the tri-state marker. This proved to be overly optimistic, if not frankly incorrect.

Anyway, I headed down this Birch Brook Trail, but it basically went east and a little south, as most of the maps show it does, so was not taking me any closer than the tri-state. I bushwhacked straight for a point on the VT-MA line, a bit south of the tri-state. This route took me through beautiful open woods, very suitable for glade SKIING. In fact, I descended a very steep route down to the stream bed shown on the topo. Working my way north along the NY-MA border, I found the Williams College shelter and what I thought was the vicinity of the tri-state marker.

The truth is, I wondered (and wandered) around there for a good half hour or so, without coming across the marker. There were plenty of ribbons, painted blazes, and a couple of nice cellar holes, but where was that marker? Finally, I took Jack Parsell's notes in hand, describing the route in from the east, and the position of the marker 100 feet west of and above the tote raod to the shelter. Found it!

To complete a loop, I headed north on the MAZE of logging roads, none of them marked as 'this way to TCT' or otherwise. I basically always chose the left hand turn or uphill route until they petered out altogether, at which point I bushwhacked due west towards the ridge. I startled several groups of whitetails in there, very nice. Finding the trail on the ridge, it was an easy walk back to my car, about a 3 hour hike in total, including all the wandering in circles through 3 states near the marker.

All in all a fun little tri-state marker trip, a worthy detour on my way to Albany to see a guy about a boat.

 

[bcskier]

Nice trip report. Thanks for noting the skiing possibilities. I'll post a report next winter if I ever get in there to take advantage of them. I noted on the topo that the valley was given the name "snow hole" so I assume it collects snow over the course of the winter. All very tempting.

bcskier

 

[RoySwkr]

My understanding was that NH and VT don't want the Conn. River because then they would be responsible for the cost of the bridges on there own.

If you look at the state line marker on most NH/VT bridges, it is partway across the span, because bridges are designed for floods not just normal water. So each state essentially pays for the approach and abutment on their end and splits the cost of the span according to the length in each state so NH pays most. An exception was the repair of the US-4 bridge at White River Jct where the inspector had to note which beams were replaced and bill them to the correct state.