Performing high-risk rescues: 'It's the New Hampshire way'

[Fisher Cat]

I would like to stick with the article and mention that the efforts, sacrifice, and pure guts of SAR are to be heralded. It has been many years since I have been involved, mostly the late 80's and into the 90's. "Its the New Hampshire way" are the only words I can agree with that truly sum it up. I remember growing up, whenever there was an incident in the Whites, be it injury or fatality, my parents would break out the article in the Democrat and Reporter, and we would break it down to see where the mistakes had been made. Not all were mistakes, the mountains take without mercy at times, as it has been said. But as I grew up, its what I wanted to be involved with, going out there and getting the job done, regardless of where the hiker was from, or even the reason why, I went out without question. My only explanation being, if I was out there in the same plight, I would want someone out there looking for me, without prejudice, without judgement. My family knew the Dow's, and I can remember the effect that had on friends and the community.

Times have changed, especially with the tools available. Seems like in the past, it was more of guessing where a lost or injured hiker would go, just on intuition alone.That being said, I've never regretted a single SAR, though as I mentioned, its been years. I went out to recover the bodies of the plane crash with the Texans' in 90, and spent days looking for a local community member, only to find out he wasn't lost in the woods, he had gone deep into the woods to end his life. It was both tragic and startling to see, but it brought closure.

And that's what SAR does, brings closure, good or bad, whether its a rescue or a recovery. I was involved in an out-of-state SAR several years ago and quite frankly, I was shocked to see what happens when personnel are not trained or experienced when it comes to getting an unconcious medically hampered hiker out of the woods. It made me all the more proud of my upbringing, volunteerism, and of the current SAR teams that are out there using the latest technology and equipment, but using the most important tools of all, heart and courage. And if there was a fee to help support them, you bet your sweet you-know-what I would pay it.

 

[David Metsky]

And just because you're mad at the AMC, aren't you really just using the AMC as a vehicle to pick the pockets of rich out-of-staters?

I agree. The idea that you can target backcountry campers because you're already collecting fees there seems to be targeting a small subset of the users. A group that conveniently is mostly out-of-staters and relatively well off, regardless of their contribution to the problem.

I would much prefer using the parking pass system since it reaches a much broader number of users of the forest, however there are logistical hurdles involving federal vs state programs.

 

[sierra]

I know for a fact that if you raise the tolls the DOT will not relinquish any of the toll revenue for your idea, the DOT is currently underfunded and highway projects would take every cent of that additional toll revenue.

 

[freighttrain48]

What if you take an extra step like having a SPOT or other personal location device. Should you need to pay additonal money given the fact that if you need help it wouldnt cost as much because there would just be a rescue and no search? just a thought.

 

[RoySwkr]

Perhaps because a) those who stay at the huts are already paying NH meals and lodging tax

Apparently because the AMC is nonprofit they aren't charged meals tax but only rooms tax, except at the Highland Ctr which serves liquor (anybody have a bill to check this?)

Making hut users pay meals tax seems reasonable to me, whether SAR gets it or not

Why tag a small rich group while letting a large cheap group have a free pass like they've always enjoyed?

And just because you're mad at the AMC, aren't you really just using the AMC as a vehicle to pick the pockets of rich out-of-staters?

Sure, but isn't that the NH way

 

[griffin]

Apparently because the AMC is nonprofit they aren't charged meals tax but only rooms tax, except at the Highland Ctr which serves liquor (anybody have a bill to check this?)

I think the issue at the huts is that the user only pays one single fee, not a separate amount for the room, and then for dinner - it's all-inclusive so the tax is, too (just as you don't get hit with a sep. fee if your hotel serves you a "free" "continental" breakfast). I'm not sure the non-profit status is relevant, since it's not the AMC that pays the tax, but the guest:

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/whitemountains/highland/highland-faqs.cfm

The AMC pays its share of the New Hampshire Rooms and Meals taxes for its operations at Crawford Notch, Pinkham Notch, and in the backcountry (hut system) as required by state law.

They are exempt, as a non-profit, from property taxes, but they do make voluntary "payments in lieu of taxes" where they operate. I have no idea how those payments compare to what their actual tax burden would be if they weren't a 501c3.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Do I pay taxes on a meal if I am not staying at the hut? For example, I have gotten lunch/soup/bread/hot choc/brownies, etc., from Mitzpah and Zealand even though I was day-hiking. In some cases, they could be considered a "convenience store" (brownies) and in others, they could be considered take-out or dine-in. I just pay the $1 or $2 or whatever they want, cash in a basket...

Tim

 

[Craig]

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/whitemountains/highland/highland-faqs.cfm

How does the AMC’s nonprofit status affect the town, and other lodging establishments?
Recognizing the AMC’s nonprofit status and its public service mission, and in accordance with state law, the town of Carroll exempts the AMC’s Crawford Notch facility from property taxes. Recognizing that it benefits from certain town services, such as police and fire protection, the AMC makes a voluntary payment in lieu of taxes to the town, currently $10,000 a year. In October 2001, the AMC and the town of Carroll negotiated and signed a five-year agreement for payment in lieu of taxes. While the AMC is not required to pay taxes to the town, nor to make a payment in lieu of taxes, it is making this annual payment to ensure that its operations present no financial burden to the town. The AMC will continue to pay its fair share, and has significantly increased its contribution to the town to reflect an understanding that with a greater presence in Crawford Notch, its share of emergency services may also increase. The AMC also agreed to increase its voluntary payments in proportion to tax rate increases.

How does the town assessment issue affect charitable donations to the AMC?
The property assessment issue in the town of Carroll is a local issue. As an educational, public-service-oriented organization, the AMC falls under the federal tax code as a tax-exempt 501c3 organization. That status has not changed. Accordingly, donations to the AMC are tax-exempt as provided by federal law.

Does the AMC operate tax free?
The AMC does not operate tax free. The AMC pays its share of the New Hampshire Rooms and Meals taxes for its operations at Crawford Notch, Pinkham Notch, and in the backcountry (hut system) as required by state law. The AMC has negotiated payment in lieu of taxes with a number of communities in which it has a presence.

How do the AMC’s operations affect the local economy?
The AMC believes its presence in Crawford Notch makes a positive contribution to the Twin Mountain community and economy, as it provides jobs, stimulates the local economy and helps introduce visitors to the town and the surrounding mountains. A 1995 study by Northern Economic Planners of Concord, N.H., showed that the AMC’s White Mountains operations made a positive contribution to the North Country economy in excess of $62 million. In addition, AMC programs and facilities contributed directly or indirectly to the creation of more than 900 North Country jobs. The AMC believes the Highland Center adds to the AMC’s positive contribution to the White Mountains economy, and results in increased patronage for many local businesses. Construction of the Highland Center supported dozens of local workers, including tradesmen from throughout the region. Staffing needs at the Center and the Crawford Notch Depot and Macomber Family Information Center – which serves as a welcoming gateway for visitors to the town of Carroll – support 15 full-time jobs and more than 25 seasonal positions. And, of course, the AMC provides public services, such as free public evening programs at the Highland Center, information services at the Depot, and tens of thousands of hours of trail maintenance in fulfillment of its mission – all adding significant value to local, state, and regional entities, in addition to the general public.

Managing the news? You decide.

This Bill pass the House but died in the Senate in 2006.

Senate Stuff

House Stuff

Good stuff griffin & Tim

 

[RoySwkr]

the AMC makes a voluntary payment in lieu of taxes to the town, currently $10,000 a year
...
The AMC pays its share of the New Hampshire Rooms and Meals taxes for its operations at Crawford Notch, Pinkham Notch, and in the backcountry (hut system) as required by state law.

This just says they pay what the law requires, it doesn't say they pay meals tax at huts.

Does anybody have an actual bill?

They are exempt, as a non-profit, from property taxes, but they do make voluntary "payments in lieu of taxes" where they operate. I have no idea how those payments compare to what their actual tax burden would be if they weren't a 501c3.

Apparently the equalized tax rate in Carroll is $15.10/$1000
http://www.nh.gov/nhes/elmi/htmlprofiles/carroll.html

So if the AMC pays $10,000 they are paying the equiv of a property worth $662,000

 

[griffin]

This just says they pay what the law requires, it doesn't say they pay meals tax at huts.

Right, but it does suggest that their non-profit status doesn't affect whether or not they have to collect Room and Meals tax.

I don't think there are separate taxes for rooms vs. meals - it's one tax. You rent a room, you pay a tax. You buy a meal, you pay a tax. You stay in a room where the room includes a meal (like the breakfast we get when we stay at the Best Western in Manchester, and I think like the dinner and breakfast we get at the huts), you pay Room and Meals tax on the room/bunk rate. There's no second tax because there's no second bill presented.

 

[RoySwkr]

I don't think there are separate taxes for rooms vs. meals - it's one tax.

Some items are taxable, some are not, and some it depends... If you buy a single donut at the grocery store you pay meals tax but if you buy a dozen you don't. You get one bill at the checkout but if you read the slip you see how much tax you paid (and probably on what.)

So if somebody has a high hut receipt, we can see if it's the AMC website or testimony by an AMC VP that's misleading.

 

[Craig]

Misleading? OMG
How about both? No wait, how about all of them?

 

[Craig]

Oh, and don't forget the tantalizing tidbit disclosed in the Study Committee Report

“Asking the hiking clubs who collect the meals and rooms tax to voluntary remit back to the state the 3% they retain for collecting the tax and then dedicate that amount to the Fish and Game Search and Rescue Fund”

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Just in case you want to be a conservation officer, they are hiring

Tim