Question for people who hike w/dogs

[nartreb]

Tangential to the topic but I was vividly reminded of it this weekend: dogs have different (mostly better) hearing than we do. Certain noises that seem harmless and inconsequential to us may be loud and frightening to them. Yesterday I saw a very large dog cowering in panic because a hiker was dragging his metal poles over the ground - it's not the first time I've seen a dog react badly to that particular noise. Something to be aware of if you're sharing a trail with dogs, and it probably applies to deer and moose too.

 

[HuiYeng]

I'd also suggest watching the "Dog Whisper", Ceasar Milan on the Discovery Channel. Amazing fellow - no tricks, just knowledgeable dog psychology. Ceasar will point out that you only reinforce positive behaviors.
QUOTE]

I'm in the middle of reading his book and learning much about dogs that is contrary to what I thought. Don't praise the dog after he is aggressive and then friendly. I can imagine that you are getting a little anxious watching his behavior and that only reinforces his behavior. And it probably is not a good idea for him to be out on the trail in front of you. You have to be the "calm, assertive leader". Easier said than done!

Just wanna give another thumb up to the show Dog Whisperer, I recommend it to all my dog-lover friends. Although I do not currently live with dogs, but growing up we always have them in our family.

I never have any problem hiking with or running into dogs on the trail, I love seeing them enjoying the nature. But I have once get annoy by a dog of a guy who I hiked with, the dog kept stepping on my snowshoes to avoid the snow, drove me crazy

 

[ellen]

Thanks again to everyone for their posts. We have been working on heeling in dog obedience class. It's no small task with my strong willed pup who is entering his adolescents! Thank you for posting a link to the dog whisperer...it is VERY helpful.

 

[una_dogger]

Aussies

I've got two aussies (and have been involved in Aussie Clubs) and you are describing VERY typical Australian Shepherd behavior: suspicious of strangers; strong guardian instinct.

The main thing that I have learned with my first aussie is that she really didn't know how to get herself out of a stressful situation; and I had to help her learn how to do that. Now she's a pretty good little trail dog but will sometimes react to certain people with a bit of protection barking.

Your pup is young and from the shelter; it could take several months for her true temperment to come out as she adjusts; and the trail -- even though its a great thing to be doing, may be a bit too much for her right now.

If you haven't already enrolled in a group obedience class, and there is one near you, I would start there. Get her comfortable and responsive to your voice through some simple obedience drills and her confidence in you as leader will improve, as will her trust in you to make the decisions, not her.

Try to work with her in smaller parks on shorter trails on leash to get her adjusted to seeing others on the trails. Bring plenty of soft, yummy treats, and when you see others approaching, happily call her name, back up, pulsing the leash gently and draw her into you for a treat and keep treating her. The idea is to:
a. create some distance between you and the passerby's, which will automatically take the pressure off her to react. How much distance depends on her stress level and you will just need to keep increasing distance until you get her calmly focused on you and ignoring the passerby's.
b. this also teaches her an alternate behavior than the one she's chosen, which is to bark and guard you.

In time with patience you will get there, just my humble 0.02; but I think especially with the herding breeds its important to put the training time in. I've also found personally and seen through other Aussie owners that I've trained with, is that the positive methods of "ignore the undesired behaviors" do NOT work well with this very smart and engaged breed. Most will percieve this as you relinquishing your status as leader and putting them in charge. Again, just my 0.02; all dogs are different.

I highly recommend
"Good Owners, Great Dogs" by Brian Kilcommons & Sarah Wilson
for some concrete instructions on how to raise a well behaved and respectful dog -- they are aussie folk and thier methods are stricter and work better with the aussies than the softer methods out there; which work very well on the more social breeds; like the retrievers. Aussies respond very well to strong leadership, and its generally the kissy/huggy/squeeky "what a cute doggie" people that the aussie's will herd/react to and the tougher, quieter and more confident folk that they will defer thier respect to--that is their nature and while a good watchdog is highly valued on a farm, on the trail....well...you're probably finding out how her guardian instinct is being perceived. You've got a tough breed there! And while she's an adolescent, she's still trying to figure out who is who.

Good luck with your pup!!!!

Sabrina

 

[una_dogger]

Just adding:

I will agree with Jade that many dogs are more aggressive on leash -- both of mine included. But since sometimes I do need to leash my dogs (and my younger adolescent boy who's going through some growing pains right now is exclusively leashed on hikes) working the distance thing as I described above can help them through that until you get some good solid voice control.

Good luck with your pup! I hope you've gained some valuable insights here, from both sides of the "dog on trails" topic!!

 

[ellen]

Sabrina,
Thanks for your post. It is very helpful and encouraging. He's not an easy dog to train, but I know putting effort into training now will pay off for both him and I in the long run. It doesn't help that this is the first dog I've ever trained! Thankfully we have some good dog obedience classes close by. I'm glad that you wrote about ignoring behaviors not working with Aussies. When I read that advice earlier in this thread I tried it and his behavior seemed to escalate. I also found the part about teaching him how to calm down to be very helpful. When he barks & growls at people I tend to lose my patience quicker than normal (probably due to embarassment) and I usually end up getting frustrated with him...which of course is completely useless!! I knew I needed to be doing something differently I just wasn't sure what. Also, I plan on getting that book you recommended.
Thanks again, Ellen.

 

[skiguy]

I'm glad that you wrote about ignoring behaviors not working with Aussies. When I read that advice earlier in this thread I tried it and his behavior seemed to escalate.

I have found this also to be true with my Aussie. I am a trained and educated Behaviorist and all that learning would tell me to ignore any negative behaviors that my Dog might display and reinforce the positive ones. I have definitely found the former to not to be true with my Aussie, but the latter they can't get enough of... B.F. Skinner would probably be scratching his head on this one but Aussies are learners and they need to be shown or told what and how to do. I have actually seen my dog many times (once it was trained) intervene with other dogs and show them what is appropriate when the other dogs are being inappropriate.
Aussies are people oriented dogs. They like to be around us Folks. They want your attention and they will seek it any way they can get it. The trick is to shape their behavior to do the positive things and not the negative. You need to point out to them what you like that they are doing (for example, appropriate hiking and no barking) and what you don't like (for example,barking at people on the trail). Thus the ignoring thing won't work and their behavior will esculate because they are seeking your attention negatively.
Be proactive and praise your dog for the littlest thing that they do right and they will thrive on it and won't get to where they esculate to the point of displaying inappropriate behaviors.

 

[una_dogger]

Skiguy you crack me up. I can't tell you how thoroughly interesting operant conditioning is in theory and how miserably it failed me and my first aussie!! (who is now my pride and joy and one of the best friends I have). And she is definately aptly labelled the Party Police by my other dog friends, she loves to police other dogs who are "in the wrong".

Aussies, IMHO and my experience, need a hybrid approach. Aussies are too smart to buy into one sided training. Aussies need to understand the good and the bad. These are dogs who are hardwired to run right up to a 2000 pound cantankerous animal and make it move! And at the same time they are very sensitive to movement, space, and pressure.

I totally think my aussies have made me a better, clearer, more patient person -- I thank them for the challenge they've given me and the things they've opened my eyes to.

Good luck Ellen!

BTW, the same author runs a great online training/dog support forum which can be found at

www.familydoginc.com
under message boards.

I look forward to hearing of the adventures of you and your pup!

Sabrina

 

[sardog1]

Aussies, IMHO and my experience, need a hybrid approach. Aussies are too smart to buy into one sided training. Aussies need to understand the good and the bad. These are dogs who are hardwired to run right up to a 2000 pound cantankerous animal and make it move! And at the same time they are very sensitive to movement, space, and pressure.

I'm going to second the thoughts above, based on my experiences in screening Australian Shepherds for SAR work and helping handlers to train a couple. I also want to expand this perspective to include some other breeds, for the benefit of other new owners of herding dogs.

Some other herding breeds often seen on the hiking trails -- Australian Cattle Dog, German Shepherd Dog, and Rottweiler, to name a few -- also may do poorly with the positive-only approach. (No, that last one is a herding breed originally, regardless of where AKC has put it.) Just as with Australian Shepherds, they've been bred to take charge of large, cantankerous critters and/or face down sizable threats. They can have a way of taking charge at home as well, if they're not taught some behavioral boundaries at a young age by the one who really ought to be in charge.

This does not apply to the Belgians (Malinois, Terv, Sheepdog) and the Border Collie, which often respond badly to negative treatment.

 

[Wet]

While were on the topic,

Does the AMC or RMC allow dogs in their shelters/huts? Also what are the ettiquet rules of camping in a shelter area (like three sided -think the Perch) with a dog? As a dog owner and lover, I always think people are happy to see my cuddly freind, but there are those out there who don;t like dogs. Do we stick to the first come first serve rule for huts?
What are peoples experience with this?

 

[David Metsky]

AMC - No dogs in huts. Shelters and tent platforms are OK if the dogs are well behaved.

RMC - Well behaved dogs allowed.

While things are still first come first served, many folks with dogs will gravitate to the tent platforms or camp in the woods where there won't be any potential conflict.

-dave-