Record Coyote

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NYBRAD

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Location
Rochester/ West of the Blue Line
Over the past few years, I've been seeing some big canine tracks, and also a few sightings of large dog type animals. It lead me to thinking about the possibility of a return of wolves here in NYS.

This must explain it.


N.Y.S. D.E.C. game commission officer Bob Doe confirmed that this was indeed a new New York state record coyote .
Its official weight was 115 pounds, it is a very large male and was shot during the regular deer season just out side the town of Hilton .
It has been spotted on several different occasions chasing deer & live stock dogs and cats.
 
115 lbs! That is pretty big for a coyote. The coyotes I've seen are much smaller and have much bigger ears - guess he must have been well fed.

I don't know much about the wildlife in the Rochester area, but I do know there's some controversy about wolves in the High Peaks. About two years ago, I was driving south on the Northway really late one autumn night, and I swear I saw a wolf run across the highway right in front of me. Someone suggested it might have been a german shepherd, but that's the kind of dog I usually have and it definitely wasn't a german shepherd. It ran different than any domestic dog I've seen and I have to admit, any coyote I've seen has just been standing still at the side of the road. Somebody suggested that maybe I saw someone's illegal pet that got loose. Either way, I still think it was a wolf. I'm not sure that the large coyote is the answer to so many larger dog type tracks that are seen around here.

One other thought - if the coyotes get that big then it seems pretty sure that the wolves would do fine here too - if they're not already here.
 
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Whew! That's a coyote? When coyotes look like that then as far as I'm concerned, they may as well be wolves. If it walks like a duck....
ecc
 
The eastern Coyote is beleived to be part wolf. This explains why they are bigger than the western coyote and the eastern coytoe is also known to hunt in packs at times. I have one living by my house and whenever I see him it is amazing how I can see wolf in his face. But 115 lbs that is big.
 
mommabear

mommabear said:
115 lbs! That is pretty big for a coyote. The coyotes I've seen are much smaller and have much bigger ears - guess he must have been well fed.

I don't know much about the wildlife in the Rochester area, but I do know there's some controversy about wolves in the High Peaks. About two years ago, I was driving south on the Northway really late one autumn night, and I swear I saw a wolf run across the highway right in front of me. Someone suggested it might have been a german shepherd, but that's the kind of dog I usually have and it definitely wasn't a german shepherd. It ran different than any domestic dog I've seen and I have to admit, any coyote I've seen has just been standing still at the side of the road. Somebody suggested that maybe I saw someone's illegal pet that got loose. Either way, I still think it was a wolf. I'm not sure that the large coyote is the answer to so many larger dog type tracks that are seen around here.

One other thought - if the coyotes get that big then it seems pretty sure that the wolves would do fine here too - if they're not already here.

Where on the Northway did you see this? This past fall I saw a very large dog near the Chestertown exit. It was feeding on road kill. When I first saw it I thought coyote. When I got closer I realized that it was much larger than any coyote I have ever seen (much larger than a German Shepard).
 
Like Showshoe said, the coyote bred with wolves and domestic dogs on its way back east. Natural selection further favored the larger animals that could bring down deer, which there are plenty of in the East. No wonder that monster doesn't look like a typical coyote.

Maybe if a few more of these large coyotes are found, and the human population of the Adirondacks isn't decimated by these ravinous blood-thirsty beasts, then people may realize that the introduction of wolves back to their native habitat just might not be catastrophic.
 
rico said:
Maybe if a few more of these large coyotes are found, and the human population of the Adirondacks isn't decimated by these ravinous blood-thirsty beasts, then people may realize that the introduction of wolves back to their native habitat just might not be catastrophic.

Uh, which wolf did you have in mind?
Status of the Eastern Wolf (Canis lycaon)

Alpha1-antitrypsin polymorphism and systematics of eastern North American wolves


The question might turn out to be as large an impediment as the political issues. You can't legally "reintroduce" a species to a geographic area under the Endangered Species Act if it ain't the right one. The question has not figured much in the nascent public debate about reintroduction of wolves to the Northeast. But you can be sure that it's a topic at the Fish and Wildlife Service and other places.

Personally, I'm thrilled to see any of "them," whatever their origins. I saw one of "them" a couple years back here in NH near our home. It was nothing like the Midwestern and Western coyotes that I know pretty well (nor the wolves that I have seen infrequently in MN and AK, nor the German Shepherd Dogs that I have spent twenty+ years training.) This one was tall and lanky, probably just shy of a couple years old. The experience whetted my appetite to know more about "them."
 
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lumberzac,

I wish I could remember exactly where I was but it happened so fast. It was definitely in the more northern part of the Northway though (as compared to the Albany area where I was headed). If I'm not mistaken, Chestertown is north of Warrensburg and south of Schroon Lake. That area sounds about right. It was running from East to West and didn't run like any dog I know of.
 
That is an incredible photo. I have suspected large predatory canines in our region of the Allegany. Have found evidence of whitetail run to ground. Two sets of tracks, very remote region of National Forest, domestics are very unlikely. Wish I would have had a camera with me.
 
Uh, which wolf did you have in mind?

Sardog - I agree that DEC, Fish/Wildlife, etc. just can't throw a couple of wolves off of some trucks to repopulate an area. Personally, I don't believe that wolves are dangerous to humans... but that's the stance of some opposition groups. That's all I was trying to debate.

How about introducing this species of wolf:
 
coyote vs. wolf

Living in the St. Regis falls area several years ago I saw many coyote's - they were small - like a brown boarder collie - big ears, etc. And I've seen something a hell of a lot bigger than a coyote on two occassions in the Mullholland/Chenny Hill vacinity (north of St. Regis falls) - much darker in the coat and much bigger. I had the opportunity to watch it cross our driveway and amble through the pine plantation and into the woods. Again, saw something similar in an old field, but this time said animal was much farther away... Perhaps there are several varieties of coyote's running around.
 
I dont know to say. I think its a hybrid coyote/wolf because of the area it was taken from. South of Lake Ontario is not remote enough to support wolves, but if that was shot in the ADKs, Catskills, or Taconics then I would say maybe it is a wolf. That is a massive coyote or whatever it is.

About the wolves, I think that wolves like Mountain Lions are working there way back to areas like the Catskills and ADKs, and the DEC will deny it. When these wolves first came in and there werent that many, well there still probably arent that many if any, but they maybe mated with coyotes to produce the hybrids which are massive. About four years ago in the Blackhead Range in the Catskills about an hour before dark in the summer I swear I saw a wolf or a massive coyote, 85lbs or so, run across the stream as I approached. I was shocked.

Nice buck as well, wish the deer were that nice down here in downstate NY in Putnam County.
 
Grey Wolf

Funny this comes up now, I just read an article in the outdoor section of my local paper that talked about an 85 lb "coyote" that was shot near Edinburg in 2002. The hunter had it checked out by DEC who said it was indeed a "big" coyote.

The hunter got the pelt mounted and has had it ever since. Recently, the "authorities" came back and said that the DNA results showed that it was a wolf or wolf dog mix and asked him to donate the pelt. When he mentioned the cost for the taxidermist and his attachment to the pelt, they said basically "it's illegal to have a wolf pelt" and they took it.

I wonder if this one will turn out to be a wolf too. Eventually they will have to publicly admit that there are wolves in the Adirondacks.
 
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The DEC has a hard time admitting anything that they dont want to. If you challenge what they say they look at you as a threat to their word. Now by not allowing this coyote into the records the have to do DNA testing. I think the DEC should stop acting like communist controlling the records to what they want, not the truth.
They will eventually have to admit that New York is home to Wolves, Lynx, and Cougars in areas like the Catskills and Adirondacks.
 
wolf siting?

Over Christmas holiday what sure seemed like a wolf leapt in front of my car on Averyville Road in Lake Placid, south of the Chubb in a short stretch of wild forest. It was blond with black tipped fur, at least the size of a Shepard but did not act like a domestic dog. The leap into the road sure seemed wild, one bound and it leapt back into the woods. On the return trip I stopped to check and found the tracks. It wasn't a mirage.
 
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Update

I spoke to the outdoor editor of the Amsterdam Recorder and Hamilton County News. He is going to run an article this weekend in both papers. It's in the Sunday Recorder, I'm not sure about the Hamilton County paper.
 
Here is the "other" story that is circulating with this picture

Dan Sorg never expected to encounter a large carnivore while hunting in Susquehanna County on deer season's first day.
Deer, yes. Whitetails for his daughter and her aunt, of course.
But never a wolf. Not in Great Bend Township, near Hallstead.
"I lived in Wyoming (the state) for a while, and I've hunted coyotes, and when I saw this animal coming through the woods I knew it was no coyote," said Sorg, who is from Elk County.
The veteran hunter did not know what materialized in open timber 80 yards in front of him.
"I thought, 'What in the world is this thing?' It was twice as large as a 49-pound male coyote I killed."
Sorb looked for a collar; there was none. He looked for ear tags; nothing. He watched, attentively.
"It had a steady gait, an odd stride. I kept watching it wondering, 'What do I have here?"'
Just before thoughts of wolf flooded his mind, Sorg saw that the animal was injured.
Blood ran from a leg.
Sorg could not shake the outlandish thought - a wolf. In Pennsylvania. Where no wolves are known to roam.
"As a hunter I had the opportunity as well as responsibility to make a decision. I wondered if the injury would prove fatal. I wondered if the animal would become an opportunistic predator," he said.
Old or injured carnivores that can't catch their usual prey often resort to other species in an attempt to satisfy the gnawing hunger that would kill them.
"I wondered if it would eventually end up in town preying on cats, or dogs, or ..." There was a long pause. I knew what Sorg was thinking: "or maybe even children."
Sorg said the animal stretched 6 feet on the ground. On a certified scale it weighed 105 pounds.
"It was healthy; it had been eating well. Its paws were huge," he said. Later, in town, locals confessed they had seen massive tracks for two years, but never glimpsed the wild animal that left them.
Sorg immediately contacted the state Game Commission.
Two days later, agency biologist Tom Hardisky saw a photograph of the animal and spoke with Sorg.
Hardisky explained that coyotes don't achieve that kind of weight, and based on the photo, this animal was not a pure-bred wolf.
"It appears to be a hybrid, a cross between a dog and a wolf, or a dog and a coyote; probably a wolf. The nose on a coyote is elongated. The nose on this animal was kind of short, like you see in a husky or a wolf. It was probably a wolf hybrid," Hardisky said.
Hardisky was about to have DNA testing performed to determine the exact makeup of the beast when he found it was a male that had been neutered.
"It had been in captivity. It either escaped or had been released.
"When we found it had once been a captive animal, we called off the DNA test," Hardisky said.
Sorg wants no notoriety from this; his only intent was a pleasant deer hunt with his family.
Now, the mystery of the hybrid wolf roaming loose remains.
 
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