Shivering

[Bluethroatedone]

Reading the PBS thread reminded me something.

I have noticed that when I get cold and shiver, I can will my shiver away. I don't find that I'm any colder when I do this, just a lot calmer. Lately though, I've been wondering if this is a good thing to do, as the shiver should be producing heat to warm the body. With a little more concentration I can turn the shiver back on, or turn it on when I'm not shivering (it has to be somewhat cold of course)

Have any of you had the same experience? Any thoughts on whether one should or sholdn't mess with the shivering mechanisms

P.S.
Before someone says it yes, when shivering put on a layer/get warm etc.....

 

[Chip]

...one shouldn't mess with the shivering mechanisms
... when shivering put on a layer/get warm ....

Sorry about the creative editing, but that's how I feel.

I view shivering as a red flag that I need to do something different soon.

 

[kmac]

shiver

I'm not sure it would be considered a "true" shiver if you can turn it on and off.
kmac

 

[pilgrim]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I think "Will My Shiver" would be a good name for a band.

 

[nartreb]

I can usually control my shivering too. Comes in handy when trying to light a match, for example.

 

[sleeping bear]

If you're shivering, it means your core is getting cold and needs to be warmed up. Shivering is your muscles contracting rapidly, which requires a lot of energy to sustain but is extremely effective in warming you up. You can "turn it off", but you probably shouldn't if you are truely cold. Uncontrolable shivering happens as your core loses more hear.

Hypothermia is when your core temperature falls below 98.6. Essentially, if you're shivering, you're hypothermic.

 

[kmac]

shivering: voluntary or involuntary

Mild hypothermia occurs when the body temperature drops below 95 degrees, shivering occurs when the core temp drops, and a "true" shiver is an "involuntary" neuromuscular response to the body's drop in temperature.

 

[cbcbd]

"Don't you shiver... sing it loud and clear... I'll always be waiting for you"


With that said... I like my shiver. Like Chip said, it's a red flag. When I start to mumble and shiver I know it's time to get another layer out.

 

[expat]

Do something, then stop

It seems to me that if you add a layer, then control your shivering, you'll be fine.

If you don't do something, yet control your shiver anyway, you're just putting off the inevitable.

Let's say that you shiver, and don't control it: your body will warm enough from shivering to keep you going for a while, maybe long enough to get food into you, or get into your sleeping back to warm up.

Now lets say that you shiver, but control it: your body will continue to cool and you'll arrive at a point where you can't control it. At that time, you'd better do something. It's still not too late, but it will come sooner if you have controlled it earlier.

Just talking about it makes me want to make some soup!

 

[SAR-EMT40]

I have noticed that when I get cold and shiver, I can will my shiver away. I don't find that I'm any colder when I do this, just a lot calmer.

Yes, I have been able to do this since I was a child. It is still one of the very few things that I still can do, that I could do as a child. I don't believe that it will hurt you and I also don't believe that you would be able to "will away" serious shivering. When I feel that I need to shiver, I will it not to happen and I use it as a hint that if I don't take action soon I will get myself in trouble.

Keith

 

[DougPaul]

Expat is correct.

As your body temp drops, first you start shivering (with voluntary shutoff) and then as your temp drops even further, you progress to uncontrollable shivering. Shivering is a warning sign, involuntary shivering is an alarm bell. (Both are attempts to increase your body temp.) If your temp drops sufficiently that you stop shivering your body has given up--you will die unless you (or more likely others) do something to increase your body temp. See http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=122799&postcount=8.

I never let my core temp drop to the point where I begin shivering. If I did start shivering, I would immediately do something to reduce my heat loss or increase my heat production while I am still in control.

Doug

 

[Jay H]

There is already a band called "shivaree" who's lead singer's name is Ambrosia Parsley

As far as shivering, I can turn my shivering on and off for the most part, but like somethings like breathing, I think it is both an voluntary and also involuntary response. You can control your breathing to a point...

Jay

 

[Pete_Hickey]

.....As your body temp drops,.....

A number of years ago, I performed an 'experiment' on myself with hypothermia. I wrote it up here:

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/hypothermia.txt

I didn't write about the shivering, although I remember pulling a muscle in my shoulder from shivering so hard once I got home.

 

[MattC]

I did the opposite of this one night last November in the Catskills. I woke up uncomfortably cold and voluntarily made myself shiver for a few minutes to warm up. I then put on my down jacket and wore it the rest of the night inside my bag. I think my cold problem that night was due to insufficient fat calories in my dinner, since I had been in the same bag and tent the previous night in similar temps and had felt perfectly comfortable.

Matt

P.S. Tom Waits has a nice tune called "Shiver Me Timbers"

 

[--M.]

For my part, I've found that "shiver" is a word that begins to sound increasingly weirdly meaningless the more I say it. By the time I was done reading this thread, I was no longer able to read the word in its original context.

By now, the syndrome has spilled over to other areas and I can no longer pronounce "shiboleth" correctly.

Now look what you've done.

--M.

 

[timmus]

A number of years ago, I performed an 'experiment' on myself with hypothermia. I wrote it up here:

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/hypothermia.txt

Very interesting, Pete. You just made me realize that I probably experienced hypothermia without knowing it. All the symptoms were there, but I wasn't thinking too much about it because I was using all my last energy to get out of the trail (Allen). I spoke to someone in the last mile and it was like I had a hot (frozen) potato in my mouth. And I don't have a beard.

About the shivering, I experienced it very badly once on a Seward's overnight. I slept in a soaked bivy and sleeping bag. I toughed it all night, but I guess it was a mild shivering, I was lucky that the temp was mild for September.

I believe there is a large area between the beginning of the shivers and hypothermia, and it might very different from an individual to an other.

 

[Chip]

Very interesting, Pete. You just made me realize that I probably experienced hypothermia without knowing it. All the symptoms were there, but I wasn't thinking too much about it because I was using all my last energy to get out of the trail (Allen). I spoke to someone in the last mile and it was like I had a hot (frozen) potato in my mouth. And I don't have a beard.

About the shivering, I experienced it very badly once on a Seward's overnight. I slept in a soaked bivy and sleeping bag. I toughed it all night, but I guess it was a mild shivering, I was lucky that the temp was mild for September.

I believe there is a large area between the beginning of the shivers and hypothermia, and it might very different from an individual to an other.

The one important thing I learned as a boy scout (think cotton, canvas, flannel sleeping bags, cooking on open fires) was to protect my sleeping bag and one change of socks and long underwear from getting wet as if every ounce of my life depended on it. The lowest tech piece of gear I carry is the garbage bag I keep my bag and clothes in, in my pack. All that effort is for nothing if you don't have dry shelter, of course, but that's the reason I use high quality, self-supporting tents.

I don't know how large the area is between shivering and hypothermia, but I suspect it's not as large as we'd like it to be.

 

[KayakDan]

Several years of winter camping,never had real hypothermia-just the occasional quick shiver that another layer fixes pretty quick.
The one time I did experience hypothermia-uncontrollable shivering,loss of co-ordination was 2 years ago while kayaking in the Bahamas-go figure!
Several factors that lead to this. First I had been sick that morning-possible food poisoning(most of our group was sick)so I became dehydrated. Then we had a three mile rough water paddle back to shore,(we were island camping)so I got pretty wet and paddling hard on no food. We got back to shore,and back to the place we were staying and the wind was really howling. Standing in the doorway(in a shorty wetsuit) with the wind hitting me(still wet) and it happened so fast it was amazing. Uncontrollable shivering,I couldn't speak,and no co-ordination-pretty damn scary. I stumbled into the bathroom and hit the hot water handle in the shower and sat on the floor . Once the water warmed up,the shaking slowed,and in a matter of minutes I was fine.
I know why it happened,but it's amazing where it happened,and how fast.

 

[DougPaul]

Standing in the doorway(in a shorty wetsuit) with the wind hitting me(still wet) and it happened so fast it was amazing. Uncontrollable shivering,I couldn't speak,and no co-ordination-pretty damn scary..

The blood in one's extremities can be signifcantly cooler that the core. If the cooled blood is rapidly circulated into the core, it can result in a fast core temp drop and a rapid onset of hypothermia.

This can be an issue in rewarming a chilled victim.

Doug

 

[jjmcgo]

Does that mean

sitting in the steamy, warming room was smarter than getting into the hotter shower, DougPaul?