SPOT vs FAST FIND

[Maddy]

I am preparing ahead for how I want to spend my REI dividend this coming year. It will be here before we know it.

As I get older, I have become more "fearful" of getting injured or lost, something I did not give a whole lot of thought to when I was younger. I would hope to never have to use one of these but I think it might go a long way in allowing me to feel more at peace with my sojourns "into the wild".

I read the reviews on the REI web site this am and much to my surprise the SPOT received some very negative comments. Lots of them revolved around the attitudes of the customer support folks and the SPOT does not seem all that reliable. This is disheartening when one it talking about a life saving device.

After reading these, I don't think I would feel a whole lot more comfortable carrying a SPOT.

FAST FIND received much more positive input and ranks close to 5 stars.

I don't feel a real need to have the capability to contact my friends if I were in a real life/death situation. I would much sooner contact SAR.

WHAT SAY YOU???

http://www.rei.com/product/791972/mcmurdo-fast-find-210-personal-locator-beacon-with-gps

http://www.rei.com/product/784892/spot-ii-satellite-gps-messenger

 

[spider solo]

I've been using the 1st generation SPOT device for a number of years, with near 100 % success.
However I have never put it to the test with an 911 emergency rescue, so I sometimes wonder how that would work out.
I use it on most all my trips, though mostly they are paddling trips.

The thing I noticed when checking out the links is the Fast Find will send a rescue message for 24 hrs.

The SPOT device for 6 days (I think my older version is 9 days but I should double check)

So that's a noticeable difference if I read things correctly.

The Spot I use daily when on a trip, so it works out ok for me.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Maddy -

I now live in the West, and several people I know carry the Spot. An advantage of this unit is that it can be set to constantly transmit, allowing family and friends to track movements of a hiker in the backcountry. The newest models seem to be fairly reliable in transmitting an emergency SOS if needed. Based upon comments made on western hiking BB's I frequent, complaints about Spot's overall reliability show that the newest model is better. I think there's a new model in the Spot family which will allow it to pair with a Smartphone for additional communication capabilities.

The Fast Find is a dedicated PLB, and does not provide tracking like the Spot. It should be noted that the devices broadcast on different frequencies, so an apples-apples comparison isn't really possible.

So, if the goal is to get found as quickly as possible in an emergency, I'd choose the Fast Find. It's a simple, single-purpose device - one button "Phone Home".

If you want to family/friends to be able to follow your progress on a backcountry trek - like the JMT - the Spot would be a good choice.

Perhaps at some point a device which can provide both functions will be introduced. I'm not an electrical engineer, so can't comment on the technical challenges of creating such a transmitter.

 

[Nessmuk]

I am convinced that virtually all complaints and negative reviews about SPOT not functioning properly are due to failure to understand how to operate it.

Up front, SPOT is not strictly the same as a PLB, so I won't get into that argument found on some forums and I am not at all defending SPOT's actual faults and limitations. I also cannot speak to the quality of customer service, since neither of two SPOT devices I have owned needed that service. I also have not used any function other than the "I am OK" and auto-track progress modes.

I first purchased and used SPOT (first generation) as required equipment on the Yukon 1000 mile canoe race in 2009. As the first race of its kind, the race rules required periodic "I'm OK" messages to be sent throughout the day, at least every 6 hours, plus at the beginning and end of the mandatory 6 hour "night" stop - wherever on the river that happened to be, to prove we were complying with the 6 hour rest rule. Before the race began all paddlers had to send test messages to verify they understood how to operate the device, because there are some quirks that are vital to understand. Failure to send a required location signal during the week-long race could result in a time penalty being assessed against the offending boat.

Out of 19 boats in the 2009 Y1K, only my canoe and one other finished with zero penalty points. My boat actually carried two SPOT devices and both functioned perfectly.

The first requirement for success is the device must be positioned flat in a horizontal orientation, with a clear view of the sky especially toward the south (at far northern latitudes). For the most part the view is not a problem on a big river, except when in deep east/west canyon sections. Everyone supposedly knew about the flat orientation requirement in advance. Those racers with the most violations had put their SPOTs in a pocket at some random orientation with their body blocking its view. Not good.

Second, understanding of what happens when you press the OK button is critical. It can take up to 20 minutes for the signal to actually go out. If you press the OK button again before the previous message has gone out, the previous message is cancelled and the 20 minute time starts all over again. Keep pressing the button and a signal will never go out and you will not know it. This was another problem many of the other racers brought upon themselves.

The rules were changed for the 2010 Y1K race. All were required to be in auto-track mode. In this mode SPOT automatically sends out an OK location signal every 10 minutes. With few exceptions this performed well with everyone who had mounted the SPOT properly. Friends and family of racers from all over the globe could follow race team locations in near-real time.

In 2011 I gave my first generation SPOT to a fellow crew member and I bought a gen 2. We each had near complete coverage on the 2011 Y1K, as did the other racers who followed the instructions. Unlike me, my friend uses his gen 1 almost every time he goes out canoeing or hiking. It still works as advertised and his wife always knows where he is.... hmm.

 

[Brambor]

I object to the monthly direct account deduction for the spot and therefore I favor the PLB. The batteries don't get drained so it is really there for you when you really need it. Plus it operates worldwide.

For GPS tracking I use my android phone.

 

[Nessmuk]

I object to the monthly direct account deduction for the spot and therefore I favor the PLB. The batteries don't get drained so it is really there for you when you really need it. Plus it operates worldwide.

For GPS tracking I use my android phone.

How long does your android battery last when gps tracking?

I changed my SPOT batteries after every 3 days of continuous 18+ hours/day use on the Yukon race, only as a precaution that it keep working on day 4. If you don't want or need continuous tracking, simply turn the unit off and the batteries will last indefinitely. I paid the annual fee to SPOT up front, so there is no monthly charge deduction to my account.

Again, the SPOT is not a PLB, but it can perform the same emergency function. Plus it does allow anyone who has your SPOT address to continuously track your position from any internet connection world wide, and in case of a true emergency it will send the appropriate message to persons of choice as well as to SAR authorities.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

I purchased a spot gen 2 and have had very good luck with it. With some common sense I think that it performs extremely well. I agree with Nessmuk that many of the complaints are likely caused by a lack of understanding of how the device works. Like everyone has stressed, its not a PLB but I trust it based upon my personal experience and I solo all the time and consider it my last ditch emergency beacon.

Keith

 

[Brambor]

If I turn off everything but the GPS and lock the screen then the Android battery lasts about 5 hours.

In most cases it is fine for my day trips but here and there it runs out of juice. For multidays I carry a solar charger which works fine when the weather is nice.

Is it true that the SPOT contract automatically renews and they will hit your account again without notification? This seems to have been true in the past as well as difficulty with customer service over cancellations (they kept charging the monthly rate even though customers cancelled)

How long does your android battery last when gps tracking?

I changed my SPOT batteries after every 3 days of continuous 18+ hours/day use on the Yukon race, only as a precaution that it keep working on day 4. If you don't want or need continuous tracking, simply turn the unit off and the batteries will last indefinitely. I paid the annual fee to SPOT up front, so there is no monthly charge deduction to my account.

Again, the SPOT is not a PLB, but it can perform the same emergency function. Plus it does allow anyone who has your SPOT address to continuously track your position from any internet connection world wide, and in case of a true emergency it will send the appropriate message to persons of choice as well as to SAR authorities.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

I have a yearly contract. They automatically renew the contract unless you cancel something like 2 weeks prior to the renewal date. They send a notification something like 2 weeks ahead of the renewal. Failing to cancel in that time-frame causes the automatic charge and renewal. If you don't have a valid credit card attached to the contract that also incurs another charge.

It is spelled out in the contract. I understand why it might upset some people but they should probably have read the contract and payed attention to the emails.

Keith

 

[MichaelJ]

I agree with what many have posted about the SPOT. If you want to be able to reassure anyone that you're okay, it's the way to go. It's much more flexible than just an "I need rescue" beacon.

The better models have multiple choices that you can press, and each can be configured to send a message (email or SMS or even Facebook post) of your choosing to any selection of people you choose. For example, you can program the buttons for the classic "I'm okay and having a great hike!" alongside "I'm running late but everything's fine" and "I could use some assistance" to request a friend to come meet you. The SOS button triggers the SPOT company to notify the authorities.

I personally like that differentiation a lot: just needing a friend to come help vs. needing the professional rescue.

As noted, you can also turn on the tracking, and set up the SPOT website that they provide for you, and anyone you choose (you can have a password) can visually track your progress. Obviously this uses more battery, but can be fun for various hikes/events.

 

[marti124]

Re: Spot v. FastFind

I've owned both devices (not concurrently). The spot followed use of the FastFind. Some observations.

1. The FastFind weighs more.

2. The FastFind requires spending about $100 to change the battery and it only lasts 4-5 years, which means you should sell yours after about 2 years if you expect to find an audience willing to buy yours because they'll know about the limited life of the unit. You have to mail your device away to get the new battery installed.

3. The Spot uses disposable lithium batteries.

4. The Spot besides the uses already mentioned, the Spot 2, which I have, also has a button for emergency vehicle service, like AAA, except with AAA you have to call them and if you are out of cell service range, then what? With the Spot 2, you can get emergency vehicle service, like AAA, anywhere. The FastFind can't do that. It can't distinguish between a life-threatening emergency and a car-dead emergency.

5. I spoke with a NPS Ranger at McClure Meadows in Kings Canyon National Park about 3-4 years ago, the year after a person saved his own life using a Spot device, he needed an emergency appendectomy and was able to get off the John Muir Trail (where he was hiking and where you're typically a day to 2 days away from a road) and onto the operating table within 12 hours. The ranger said his boss told him that the Spot device, the people behind their emergency services, are able to contact the NPS people who need to do the rescue about 1-2 hours faster than the NOAA people who get a PLB signal. These two NPS officials feel the Spot is more of an aid to getting a rescue started faster than a PLB. They recommended the Spot device.

6. I totally agree if you have a SPOT, you need to follow the instructions. And get the warranty program. I had a flaky Spot that got replaced once, and another Spot that got stolen (and they covered the theft problem for only a fee of about $35 because I had the warranty).

7. There is one PLB that has a messaging service (but not an auto-dead signaling service) -- which is another brand, ACR -- you need to get their 406Link plus the PLB you choose. Their newest one looks like is only 1 oz lighter than the Spot 2.

 

[una_dogger]

I am not a high tech person and for that reason I like my Spot. The only thing I have learned is to send a message, you need to be stationary for about five minutes.

As MJ pointed out there is an expanded service contract that allows you to create personalized messages that can be texted to up to five people. I have a "I need help but not SAR" message that alerts five people and also includes phone numbers so they can touch base and coordinate.

My "I'm running late but ok" message is sent to my husband.

The only messages I've sent are "I'm ok and having a great hike" which is texted to my husband and posted to my Facebook page.

I have never had to use the emergency button, but I am confident it will work -- I have also included in my emergency message the names and descriptions of my dogs.

I have used the tracking and adventure page but it drains the battery- so now I just send a message or two to my Facebook page if anyone is wondering where I am.

Like I said, I am not tech savvy and had no trouble setting this up, along with a but of advice from a friend who uses one.

There may be better devices available, but the overall cost, ease of use, flexibility all fit what I was looking for-which is mainly a took to provde peace of mind for my family and an emergency device that I hope I never have to use.

I purchased through REI -- with my dividend. Unfortunately, the 20% off coupon for members doesn't apply to electronics.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

1. The FastFind weighs more.

According the REI website, the Spot II weighs 5.2 ounces, and the Fastfind II 5.3 ounces.

Personally - 1/10 of an ounce - is that really a difference?

These personal stories are interesting, and again point out that a PLB is not the same as a messaging device.

In my neck of the woods, people die from altitude sickness, and there was another fatality about a week ago near Trail Camp - the 12.5' camp site on the Whitney Trail which many here are familiar with. In the event someone carrying a Spot device was incapacitated (AMS, hypothermia, heat stroke, injury, etc) and another hiker/climber found them - is the Spot straightforward enough so that another person could figure out how to activate it in the field?

 

[una_dogger]

According the REI website, the Spot II weighs 5.2 ounces, and the Fastfind II 5.3 ounces.

Personally - 1/10 of an ounce - is that really a difference?

These personal stories are interesting, and again point out that a PLB is not the same as a messaging device.

In my neck of the woods, people die from altitude sickness, and there was another fatality about a week ago near Trail Camp - the 12.5' camp site on the Whitney Trail which many here are familiar with. In the event someone carrying a Spot device was incapacitated (AMS, hypothermia, heat stroke, injury, etc) and another hiker/climber found them - is the Spot straightforward enough so that another person could figure out how to activate it in the field?

I think so -- there is an emergency button under a cover (so it's not inadvertently pushed) -- the person would have to be able let the others know they have a SPOT--they are carried on top of the pack (for best satellite communication) -- so if the person were laying on their pack or unable to communicate they had the device that IMHO could be an issue. However, just looking at them I think its fairly obvious what button to press in emergency situations (speaking as a non techie myself, I knew which one it was without having to read the operator's manual!)

I don't have my unit in front of me but IIRC the cover on the button says "SOS".

 

[marti124]

According the REI website, the Spot II weighs 5.2 ounces, and the Fastfind II 5.3 ounces.

Personally - 1/10 of an ounce - is that really a difference?

...In the event someone carrying a Spot device was incapacitated (AMS, hypothermia, heat stroke, injury, etc) and another hiker/climber found them - is the Spot straightforward enough so that another person could figure out how to activate it in the field?

Kevin, I live in your neck of the woods a month each year. That's where the McClure Meadow Ranger Station NPS Ranger (Kings Canyon NPS) said him and his boss felt the Spot was going to save your life faster (because the Spot people knew how to contact the NPS faster when an emergency happens, than the PLB people by 1-2 hours).

Anyway, a 1/10th of an ounce is not significant, for sure. It's the other features to think about, such as the Spot being able to bring in tow truck when you're car is down and you're out of cell service range. A PLB can't do that. (If my car broke down at Taboose Pass TH and nobody else was there and it was 100 degrees, it would really be rotten walking into town from there.)

I carry the mini-userguide with my spot in a ziplock bag. If I fell and hurt myself, if anyone found my spot, if they could read english, no problem. The Spot also has a mini-userguide label one can stick onto the spot, and most owners will have that mini-userguide on it.

A PLB needs equivalent understanding too. I used to bring a mini-userguide for my PLB FastFind when I used to hike with that.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Kevin, I live in your neck of the woods a month each year. That's where the McClure Meadow Ranger Station NPS Ranger (Kings Canyon NPS) said him and his boss felt the Spot was going to save your life faster (because the Spot people knew how to contact the NPS faster when an emergency happens, than the PLB people by 1-2 hours).

My hunch is that may be due in large part to the fact that far more people carry SPOTs than PLB's. My impression is that many of the SAR alerts lately have been initiated by a SPOT, at least in the Sierra. I don't know if anyone's begun to collect statistics on that yet.

 

[una_dogger]

I carry the mini-userguide with my spot in a ziplock bag. If I fell and hurt myself, if anyone found my spot, if they could read english, no problem. The Spot also has a mini-userguide label one can stick onto the spot, and most owners will have that mini-userguide on it.

A PLB needs equivalent understanding too. I used to bring a mini-userguide for my PLB FastFind when I used to hike with that.

That's a GREAT idea!

 

[Stan]

I'm on the receiving end of routine SPOT email notifications and enjoy tremendously knowing where a friend is paddling and that all is ok. While that may be of little consequence to those considering which emergency locator system to employ, it is a feature that should not be undervalued.

The SPOT system can be used with the DeLorme PN-60w and offers the ability to send short emails. If this is a tool that is useful it may be a consideration in the selection of locator system as well as GPS.

I don't own or subscribe to either but am always interested in the experiences of others. I still view them as a toy as much as a tool as far as the expense, technical performance vulnerabilties and change in focus from outdoor skills to technology adeptness.

 

[Maddy]

Thank you so much for all the input on these devices. You most certainly have helped facilitate my decision and I am very grateful.
I am leaning toward getting a "Res-Q-Link". I think I want something very straightforward should the need arise. I have another 5 months to go before those dividends materialize so hopefully I will make a sound decision.

http://www.acrelectronics.com/products/catalog/personal-locator-beacons/sarlink-406-gps/

 

[marti124]

Consider either this year's model or next year's Spot Connect

I just saw this video about the Spot Connect. It enables you to communicate by satellite to friends, automobile tow/repair service, and/or an emergency SOS center. And it only weighs 4.9 oz (w/ batteries) .

On the John Muir Trail Yahoo Group, because of the record snow pack over the 2010/2011 winter, the JMT hike this summer was significantly different and more challenging. We had one member in the group post trail condition reports direct to the group using her Spot Connect. It was highly appreciated and fun to follow her hike. She hit the trail about 3-4 weeks before I did.

It does look nice. More here.

I've read some reviews where some additional features were desired, I'm curious when next year's improved version comes out.

A good review is here.

Anyone on the board have one, care to comment?

Roleigh