want to buy a sea kayak

[Brambor]

I'm not sure if it's ok to ask this loaded question or whether you've covered it already but I've wanted to sea kayak for the past 10 years and due to various reasons I haven't purchased a kayak yet. I want to make it a reality this summer and I want a top of the line kayak (used or new) out of fiberglass or kevlar. I'm 220 lbs 6' tall. I want to use it to reach islands on day trips and overnighters along the Maine shoreline as well as outing on Sebago Lake (I live close by).

Please give me your recommendation for purchasing new and opinion on used kayak.

Thanks

 

[cbcbd]

I haven't paddled enough boats to give a direct recommendation... but if you're getting into a fiberglass sea kayak just head into a local place where you can demo boats, or head to a boat demo, and paddle as many as you can. They will all paddle and fit differently for each person, you just have to try it out.
At your height and weight you'll probably be looking at higher volume boats...

Don't be shy of used kayaks - you can find some great deals.

 

[Brambor]

I agree. I think I could get more kayak for the money if I buy used.

 

[cbcbd]

I agree. I think I could get more kayak for the money if I buy used.

Kayaks are hard to really beat up. If you don't mind some wear scratches (which sometimes can be buffed out) or nicks you can save a lot of money and with some minor TLC can have it looking like new. I got my glass boat used and I have put more wear in it than the previous owner!

 

[Jay H]

Brand new carbon/kevlar kayaks in a size that you'd probably fit well for the ocean (17'+) are probably in the $3500+ range. I'm not sure how far top-o-the-line you are after....

However, when going used, I would be very wary (actually I would avoid it unless you have experience with carbon/kevlar (C/K) repair) of buying a used C/K kayak as the way to repair them is not as easy or cheap as a fiberglass one (or rotomolded plastic for that matter). Stick to a nice Fiberglass kayak and find one that fits. Demoing boats would be the only way for that. Buying used for the first time, might not be the best method unless it's the only method!

Many nice mfgrs of fiberglass kayaks, I'll put a shout-out for mine, an Impex although my Mystic is way too small volume for somebody your size. Something more of a Force 3/4 or Outer Island.

Impex, P&H are good british style kayaks... just to name a namebrand. Current Designs, NDK, others...

You might want to ask Darren if you're patient on a response, he's got to be around your size...

Jay

 

[Brambor]

Patience is my middle name. I've got till july before I pull the trigger.

 

[cbcbd]

I'll second what Jay said about Fiberglass v Carbon or Kevlar. Supposedly glass kayaks are much easier to fix if you do damage the fiberglass.

I'll also second Impex kayaks but will have to say that you'd be squeezing into the Outer Island - it was a great boat, but very low volume Greenland and it was a snug fit for me (I'm 5'8", 165lbs).

The Force Cat 4 or 5 would probably be more your size and a great boat!!

 

[Jay H]

My first kayak (and only kayak as of now) is my fiberglass Impex Mystic, it weighs around 43lbs unloaded and I can cartop it myself with my J-carriers. Depending on the layups, the epoxy and stuff, you'll see quite a different weights on even similar fiberglass kayaks of equal length. Strip build wooden kayak kits, such as CLC, Pygmy can weight a few pounds off even in the same kit just by how good or how much the builder is in using the resins and epoxys needed to glue the strips together and protect it. Same with fiberglass kayaks and you may come across some mfgrs offering an 'expedition' built kayak which will be heavier but more durable.

As far as the Force 4/5, At the ADK paddlefest last year, I sat in a Force 3, now I thought my Mystic was nice and snug, the Force 3 has a much lower backdeck (the flatish spot behind the cockpit) than the mystic and it felt very much like a glove than my mystic. It's 17' and also about an inch lower in beam than my 14' Mystic. The lower back will be handy for you when you learn to roll. I don't really have a roll but I know the mechanics, it's a mental block for me and I haven't had time to try it outside the one pool session I had.

Jay

 

[darren]

Hey, guess what, you didn't have to wait that long. After being on the site once in the last 2+ months, I am back on the site.

I'm 6'4" and 200 lbs. (well, ok, 207 lbs after sitting on the couch with a broken leg). Getting a kayak to fit me is tricky business. The 200lbs isn't too much of a factor for me, it's the height. 6' shouldn't be as much of a problem as I have at 6'4". It depends on your legs and foot size though. I am long in my torso vs. my legs for my height. My pant size is 34" so if you are around there you could have some trouble. Also my size 13 feet give me space problems too.

Bottom line is you should sit in and paddle as many boats as you can. It is just too tough for someone else to tell you what they think you can feel comfortable in.

I HIGHLY recommend that people buy used for their first boat. You will find out that you either A) don't end up using it as much as you thought you would or B) you use it a ton and within a year or two end up wanting a different boat. Under either case you will be glad you bought used.

It is easy to demo new boats at shops. Look for the demo days so you can try a ton of boats in one day. It is worth driving a long way to go to a demo day.

Check ads on kayak shop billboards for used boats. Also check craigslist, but you should really check out the classified on kayak glub forums. Check out the NSPN classified board:

http://www.nspn.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID4&conf=DCConfID1

For my size, I love my P&H Orion. They are hand made custom to order so you will have a hard time finding one. You can check out some of the other P&H boats. You could probably fit into a P&H Sirius HV but they are more performance oriented and will not carry as much gear as the Orion. The Current Design Gulfstream is essentially the same kayak as the Orion. They skimped a little on the contruction, but it is the same design. You should be able to find one of those.

There is a P&H Quest for sale on NSPN for $1750 right now. It is a big expedition boat. It will carry a ton of gear and be very stable, but it will not be too quick to turn. You will also probably have trouble controlling a boat that size if you are out day trippping with no weight in it. Depends on what you want.

- darren

 

[darren]

One other thing. If you want to do overnight trips and carry gear then you might want to avoid the US kayak "day hatches". They are small hatches right behing the cockpit. They split the rear hatch and give you a small hatch you can get to while you are in the boat (if you are rubber man). I like having one full size rear hatch so it is easier to store bigger gear items. My Orion is a British version so it does not have the day hatch.

- darren

 

[Brambor]

I definitely want to do overnight trips.

 

[darren]

You will have to make some compromise on volume vs. performance. It depends on how much gear you want to haul. You might even want to bring some gear with you when you demo the boats. Then you can try stuffing gear in the hatches and see how things fit. Hatches in low deck kayaks can be surprisingly small. A higher volume boat will haul more, but it will not perform as well and will be prone to being blown around by the wind.

If you are used to going fairly light when you backpack then you should not have a problem though. A boat that fits you should have decent storage space. Mind the small round day hatches though. If you want to bring a cooler with steak and beer or a grill instead of a backpacking stove or something along those lines, then you will need a surprisingly big boat.

Anyway demo new, buy used if you can. Jay is right, a glass boat that will fit you is going to be well over $3000 new. It will take a while to identify what you want and then longer to find it used. But you should be able to save like $1500 buying used. Hit up demo days now and see what you like.

- d

 

[Brambor]

I allways pack light backpacking although I was kind of looking forward to carry more gear with me to an island (like a screen house tent), but I deffinitely don't want to get blown around by the wind. That has to be the most frustrating experience when boating. You guys are right on the fiberglass. I have made fiberglass fixings on my own before so that should be a plus.

 

[Jay H]

As an aside, most kayaks are designed to weathercock, which means your bow wants to turn into the wind. Things on your deck will affect this.

As a reference, my 14' Impex has a skeg which means the skeg box takes up a bit of space in the rear bulkhead. A rudder which sits on top does not, but again, will be affected by winds.

I am a fairly ultralight backpacker too, having a nice down WM summer bag and a Shires TarpTent. I find that I can go a good 5 days in my 14' kayak with the space I have assuming there is a freshwater source (i.e. not saltwater).

If you have to carry all the potable water, then downsize but given that you'll have a much longer kayak, you should have even more space than mine. When you do look into accessories, invest in as many drybags in the small to medium size. Clear ones allow you to see your gear.

Jay

 

[Brambor]

could you guys comment on the P&H bahiya kayak?

 

[KayakDan]

I'm a little late getting in on this one,but here's my 2 cents. Take a serious look at a NDK (Nigel Dennis) Explorer. Many years back,when I was a new paddle,and I was ready to move into a serious boat,I looked at what all the harcore NSPN guys paddled. Almost everyone was in an Explorer. I've had mine for 8 years now,and never "outgrown" it. Good stability,very predictable secondary stability,great rough water boat,built practically indestructable(I put mine clear up out of the water on a rock,paddling full tilt-no damage). Plenty of room for camping trips,and I actually like having the day hatch for packing some items.
Down side of the boat-they can't build a seat worth a damn. Easy solution-cut it out and put a Redfish Kayak foam seat in-perfect!
Because the boat is popular,used boats are out there,most have some age,as people often paddle them till they can get a new Explorer.
Other worthwhile boats,some already mentioned,Quest,P&H Sirius,Current Design Gulfstream,Boreal Design has several nice boats like the Ellesmere.
There's so many good boats on the market now,it's mind boggling. Whatever you chose-do not buy a boat until you have paddled it. It amazes me how people walk in and buy boats they have never been in. There are some really pretty boats that don't paddle worth cr@p!
And while you're spending money,make a really good(translation-expensive) paddle a priority. It can make all the difference on a long trip,or in rough water.
A couple of good boat dealers
New England Small Craft
Billinton Sea Kayak

everything you ever wanted to know about kayaks-and more
Paddling.net

Kayak Clubs
North Shore Paddlers Network
Boston Sea Kayak Club (I'm a trip leader)

Good luck-and happy paddling!