in support of a "Blue Bag Movement"

Stash's "Look before you take care of business" thread got me thinking. I spend little to no time on the popular trails during the summer, but with an estimated 50,000 people hiking Washington every year, most during the warm weather, it must get pretty freakin ripe out there. Let alone the potential to spread disease. Mountaineers are required to bag it and pack it out. Why aren't hikers ? I'm sure we've all had close calls with some idiots leavings in the middle of the trail. Then again we can't spend our days wandering 200' off trail and digging proper cat holes. Blue bags are super easy to work with and pack out. I'm not sure why they are virtually unheard of around here.

What do you do do ?

This is a blind poll, so please answer honestly.

There is no poll...

Oh poo

It would figure that my most popular thread to date relates to poop ... and worse.. that it would spawn yet another poop related thread.

Tom Rankin said:

There is no poll...

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You're an eager responder ! It takes a minute to write and submit the poll questions after the thread has been submitted. You should be good "to go" now . Blue Bag MOVEMENT...he he...he said MOVEMENT.

Not sure why I'd use a blue bag when my hiking partner's backpack is usually sitting right there out in the open. Perhaps I'm misreading the question...

-Dr. Wu

I'm one of the phew, the proud, ... the constipated. I just never seem to have to go on the trail. Three days on the side of Mt. Rainier and the urge never hit me until I was off the mountain. Pretty typical.

for those answering honestly "Work a ways into the woods, dig, drop and cover", certainly that's best short of packing it out, but what is your strategy/plan on a summit or ridge or if conditions are such that leaving the trail could be dangerous ?

Plastic bags are bad for the environment...


Since there are toilets at the base, in Tuck's, and on the summit, you don't see much (any?) human waste on Mt Washington. (Dogs are another story, but Big George is much better than many neighborhoods of Boston in that respect.) In the rare cases of urgency, just stepping off the trail a little ways suffices to avoid unpleasantness for others. Recent sad circumstances prove that hikers (myself included) can be largely unaware of a strong unpleasant smell in close proximity to the Lion Head trail.

In various other places in the Whites I've noticed a bit of a problem with toilet paper, which doesn't rot very quickly. If you can't use leaves and can't bury your paper, burn it.

Chip said:

You're an eager responder ! It takes a minute to write and submit the poll questions after the thread has been submitted. You should be good "to go" now . Blue Bag MOVEMENT...he he...he said MOVEMENT.

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Sorry, I didn't realize that was the case! It shouldn't be!

what is your strategy/plan on a summit or ridge or if conditions are such that leaving the trail could be dangerous ?

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In the Whites? Hold it the five minutes it takes to get to treeline. Luckily I never seem to need to go while I'm on a multipitch rock or ice climb, but isn't that why we practice setting anchors and rappelling?

Far above treeline on a big mountain (that doesn't have a blue-bag policy)? Get off trail, dig and bury, and hope nobody nearby has a camera.

There has been a lot of crap on this forum today.

It's not really an issue, especially on places like Washington with facilities at Pinkham, the Cog base, Tuckerman Ravine, Lakes of the Clouds, and the summit.

With the cog railroad, aren't 'mooners' able to take care of 'two' things at once?
Sorry, unable to resist the hanging curveball right across the plate.

In summer conditions I will generally go way off trail dig a little hole and let'r'fly. I also happen to use biodegradable T.P. wipes supposed to dissolve after 21 days.....admittedly I have never gone back to check, So this may just be very expensive butt wipes..... In the winter time I routinely blue bag it(especially above tree line). We put the blue bags in a home made 4" pvc TURD BOMB and empty at the base. One of us will pack the tent and the looser will have to pack the TURD BOMB out. .....should we get separated in a storm on the way out, One of us will be warm and snuggly in a tent and the other one of us will be in deep SHEET!

Stuff degrades very quickly in the NE, and so long as a few precautions are taken it's my understanding there are few health issues. When winter hiking I carry a few spare sandwich-size plastic bags to carry used tp as there's no way to bury it.

The advice that I have seen for the NE is similar: bury feces 3-6 inches deep in soil and soil bacteria will degrade them fairly rapidly. Pack out the used TP--animals may dig it up for nesting materials and safer than burning (which may start a fire).

If you prefer, you can use leaves or snow instead of TP.

Useful reference: "How to Shit in the Woods" by Kathleen Meyer.
(And yes, this is a serious book.) http://www.amazon.com/How-Shit-Wood...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251846542&sr=8-1


Doug

Has anyone ever stumbled upon someone else's cat-hole? I haven't. Although I have seen three separate instances of human poo right on the trail (once only 100 yards from a privy... grrrr). But if you don't step on someone's cat hole, I guess that means the people who ARE doing it are doing it right. Right?

As for animals digging up TP, I figure the "poo-stew" method keeps them from wanting to do that. That's where you mix it all up with a stick when you're done, but before you bury it. That way the TP and poo are all ground up together in one big... poo-stew.

Probably a pretty good time to remind folks about the Leave no Trace Principal with regards to this topic.

FWIW, with a little practice it's pretty easy to crap in a zip lock freezer bag – even standing up.

Thats not to say I haven't dropped and ran but I'd like to think thats the exception and not the rule.

Guthook said:

As for animals digging up TP, I figure the "poo-stew" method keeps them from wanting to do that. That's where you mix it all up with a stick when you're done, but before you bury it. That way the TP and poo are all ground up together in one big... poo-stew.

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Humans may find feces unpleasant, but not all animals do. Some will even roll in it.

Doug

Craig said:

FWIW, with a little practice it's pretty easy to crap in a zip lock freezer bag – even standing up.

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That's the "3 Pointer" ! Congratulations ! There's also the "Dunk" where the bag is held up close and the easiest method "The Glove" where you drop on the ground, turn the bag inside out, pick it up and then reverse the bag back around and close it. Blue Bag set ups have a smaller first bag for the Prize and a second larger bag for the Peace of Mind.

One reason I ask about all this is that my wife and boys are more intimidated about dropping trou in the woods than I am and I thought a "strategy" might make it easier for them.