Mt bikes in Wilderness Areas

As an avid hiker and mt biker I get frustrated that I cannot ride in wilderness areas. It came to a surprise to me that bikes were not banned in the original Wilderness Act in '64 but was added to it in '84. In fact back in '94 I saw a ranger riding his bike w/ trailer going up to 13 Falls, a decade after the ban.

I am not saying that all areas or trails should be opened to bikes, just like not all trails should be open to horses/pack animals. However I do believe that some areas/trails should be opened to riders. Just like national parks, maybe it should be left to the land managers for each area instead of a blanket policy for the country.

Two related articles.
http://www.americantrails.org/resources/fedland/BikeWilderness.html

http://www.newwest.net/topic/articl...oups_should_re_think_mountain_biking/C41/L41/

brianW said:

As an avid hiker and mt biker I get frustrated that I cannot ride in wilderness areas. It came to a surprise to me that bikes were not banned in the original Wilderness Act in '64 but was added to it in '84. In fact back in '94 I saw a ranger riding his bike w/ trailer going up to 13 Falls, a decade after the ban.

I am not saying that all areas or trails should be opened to bikes, just like not all trails should be open to horses/pack animals. However I do believe that some areas/trails should be opened to riders. Just like national parks, maybe it should be left to the land managers for each area instead of a blanket policy for the country.

Two related articles.
http://www.americantrails.org/resources/fedland/BikeWilderness.html

http://www.newwest.net/topic/articl...oups_should_re_think_mountain_biking/C41/L41/

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HI Brian, I totally agree with you! I am surprised you saw the ranger in the 13 falls area. After inquiring on some of the mtn bike message boards in terms of penalties for mtn biking in wilderness, it seems that when a Wilderness Areas is between 2 areas people are allowed to mtn bike in, they disassemble the bike and carry it thru the Wilderness Area, otherwise it is illegal. There are also mtn bike advocacy groups. I have read that the law on mtn biking can be interpreted in several ways, but, the most common interpretation is that it is NOT allowed.... VERY disappointing.

ANYWAY, I have seen mtn bike tracks (fat tires) in the pemi wildnerness mid-winter while I was skiing and have talked to people who have biked the pemi wilderness during 3-season... depends on how much adrenalin you want.... (considered VERY illegal....)

ALSO, if you google mtn bike wear and tear on trails compared to hiking, you will be surprised at the effect of hiking (much more impact) than any wear from mtn biking....

However, if it's any consolation, trail maintenance being what it is in wilderness areas (LOTS of high blowdowns), it would be kind of a pain to bike in Wilderness Areas, anyway. For instance, as soon as I hit that wilderness sign on any trail, the bikability goes WAY down....

We get Mountain Bikers riding all the way to the summits in the Catskills (not always legally), some of the stretches have to be carries, I'm sure!

And the Rangers are allowed to use trucks, ATVs, snowmobiles, whatever, for rescues, work projects, etc. But I've never seen a Ranger on a bike.

Of course another option would be to declare fewer Wilderness areas, Wild River for instance could have been improved for mtn biking and backcountry skiing

Mtn bikes were not yet popular when the ban was imposed, or the Sierra Club might well have had a different opinion

I rode a 3-speed in to the Wilderness/Thoreau Falls Trail jct up one side back the other when it was still legal, but it wasn't anything I wanted to repeat.

All I can say about wear is that my mother and her friends had to give up maintaining the Blueberry Mtn Trail after it became popular for mountain bikes, because the bikes wore linear grooves along the trail which tended to become rain gullies. They tried to put in a couple water bars, which tended not to last long against the momentum of bikes going downhill. Bike trails need to be built a lot sturdier, and in the past at least biker groups tended to be absent from trail maintenance and seem to tolerate a lot more erosion.

RoySwkr said:

Of course another option would be to declare fewer Wilderness areas, Wild River for instance could have been improved for mtn biking and backcountry skiing

Mtn bikes were not yet popular when the ban was imposed, or the Sierra Club might well have had a different opinion

I rode a 3-speed in to the Wilderness/Thoreau Falls Trail jct up one side back the other when it was still legal, but it wasn't anything I wanted to repeat.

All I can say about wear is that my mother and her friends had to give up maintaining the Blueberry Mtn Trail after it became popular for mountain bikes, because the bikes wore linear grooves along the trail which tended to become rain gullies. They tried to put in a couple water bars, which tended not to last long against the momentum of bikes going downhill. Bike trails need to be built a lot sturdier, and in the past at least biker groups tended to be absent from trail maintenance and seem to tolerate a lot more erosion.

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In NYS, they have created some bike routes thru wilderness, by creating a special 'corridor'. It's a little lame, in that it breaks up the wilderness into 2 areas on either side, but it's better than a 4 lane highway thru it!

I could see creating a few places for mountain bikes; but IMO in most places biking and hiking just don't mix very well. I am the maintainer for a local (town) trail that is designed for hiking; but where mountain bikes are allowed. Several times a year I have to go through and take the rocks out of the waterbars where the mountain bikers have laid them to make it easier for them to pass; but which cause the trail to flood. Grrr!

Multiple-use areas where hiking and biking seem to work O.K. together seem to be where trails are made out of old woods roads, and good drainage is already in place in the form of culverts and bridges. The successful areas I am thinking of are also not advertized, so the mountain bikers are mostly locals with a stake in keeping the trails in good shape and the landowners happy.

and furthermore....

There's also TONS of good mountain biking in the WMNF that ISN'T in Wilderness areas or "biking not allowed" areas. I have just about every White Mountain biking book currently available (plus mtn biking maps), and perhaps some out of print and the trails are all shared use. It's all good


hey, is this an illegal picture...

Becca M said:

ALSO, if you google mtn bike wear and tear on trails compared to hiking, you will be surprised at the effect of hiking (much more impact) than any wear from mtn biking........

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I do not believe this conclusion for a minute, except for perhaps perfectly flat, dry trails. On steeper trails, or trails with any significant slope, it is almost impossible to maintain water bars under mountain biker traffic, as the braking action of mountain bikes rips the bars apart as fast as they are repaired, not to mention the enhanced gullying noted by Roy. As a long-time volunteer trail adopter, I have seen it first hand, whether the mountain biking is legal or not.

Moreover, one of my scariest encounters ever in the mountains, which includes avalanches and long leader falls on vertical rock, was nearly getting run over by an out of control mountain biker in Colorado, where many trails are shared by hikers and mountain bikers, who wear helmets, shin guards, and elbow pads.

Dr. Dasypodidae said:

I do not believe this conclusion for a minute, except for perhaps perfectly flat, dry trails. On steeper trails, or trails with any significant slope, it is almost impossible to maintain water bars under mountain biker traffic, as the braking action of mountain bikes rips the bars apart as fast as they are repaired, not to mention the enhanced gullying noted by Roy. As a long-time volunteer trail adopter, I have seen it first hand, whether the mountain biking is legal or not.

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interesting! I haven't seen that where I've biked or hiked in the WMNF. Can you tell me what trails you've seen affected?

I don't know why people even try to deny the impact that mountain bikes have on trails. I mountain bike all the time in the state parks around Boston and I know fully well the damage that gets done. I try not to, but I scare the crap out of hikers from time to time as well.

After all, there is a reason why mountain bikes are banned in some parks in early spring.

That being said, there are plenty of great mtn biking trails in the White Mountains already. Let's keep wilderness as mechanical-free as possible.

roadtripper said:

I don't know why people even try to deny the impact that mountain bikes have on trails. I mountain bike all the time in the state parks around Boston and I know fully well the damage that gets done. I try not to, but I scare the crap out of hikers from time to time as well.

After all, there is a reason why mountain bikes are banned in some parks in early spring.

That being said, there are plenty of great mtn biking trails in the White Mountains already. Let's keep wilderness as mechanical-free as possible.

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I just haven't seen mtn bike damage in the WMNF - where is everybody seeing it?

I hike AND bike and have never seen as much damage on trails (waterbars or not) as from hiking overuse on almost every trail that is the shortest route to a 4K: most of the treadways are completely worn down to bare rocks. Then, there are those who would argue about damage from hiking poles, and on, and on.....

OK, I apologize for routing this to an emotional debate when neither side has good data!!!! SORRY!!!!!

Becca M said:

interesting! I haven't seen that where I've biked or hiked in the WMNF. Can you tell me what trails you've seen affected?

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I've seen it as well, on the Carriage Road and Tunnel Brook trails on Moosilauke, some of the trails on Smarts Mountain, in the Fells, and on lots of hiking trails in Mines Falls Park in Nashua. It's not an insurmountable problem, but the wear and tear, especially on waterbars as mentioned, is pretty severe. You have to design the trails much differently if you want to accommodate bikes and hikers together.

Becca M said:

I just haven't seen damage in the WMNF - where is everybody seeing it?

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I'll give ya that, haven't seen any damage in the WMNF. But then agin, WMNF isn't really known as being a mountain biking hot-spot.

I am all for making a few more biking trails in the WMNF though. There's a lot of space just west of North Conway that would serve this purpose well.

Becca M said:

...ALSO, if you google mtn bike wear and tear on trails compared to hiking, you will be surprised at the effect of hiking (much more impact) than any wear from mtn biking....

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Hmmm... I'm more than a little skeptical about this claim.

Not to wade into the issue of impact or lack thereof for mtn bikes on trails, its the whole issue of wheels in wilderness areas. Kayak / canoe wheeled dollies are prohibited as well.

The closest mt bike trail to me is an IMBA Epic (Forks Area Trail System) It is 38 miles of singletrack and get on average 400 riders each weekend day. The trail was built for sustainability. By avoiding riding (we educate many about proper trail ethics) when it is extremely wet the trail is holding up very well.

It has also become a local mecca for trail runners also. The local riders and runners have worked very hard in maintaining this trail along with another 120 miles of trail in the Augusta, GA area. Many of these trails were left abandoned 'til the local mt bike community started taking care of them. The trails are on a mix of State and County parks, National Forest, Corp. of Eng. land and a few others.

I brought this topic up because last week I was up in the mountains of Georgia with the family. We did 4 hikes in total. None of the trails allowed bikes, all were ridable but again I am not opposed to it. However, one trail, Ravens Cliffs Trail had significant damage to it from hikers, muddy, trail getting wider, camp sites all along the banks of Dodds Creek, etc. I was amazed at the trails conditions and this was the only one that was is a designated wilderness area, Ravens Cliff Wilderness. I have seen first hand the hard work mt bike clubs do for maintaining trails and heard first hand how pleased land managers are of this, at least in my area.

In my opinion, to help expand designated Wilderness Areas in this country is to open them up to mt bikes. Again, not all trails should be opened to them, just like not all trails should be open to horses/pack animals. However by doing this there would be greater support for it. Let the land managers for each area decide, since they (should) know the area better than people in DC.

ps We also hiked DeSoto Falls, Dukes Creek Falls, Mt. Yonah and were going to go from Brasstown Bald to Chimney Top Mountain along the ridge however the visibility was only 50 ft at most, misty and one of my daughter forgot her raincoat at the cabin.

Mtn bikes and drains

I see possibilities for a meeting of the minds here.

First, let there be no doubt that wheeled vehicles need smoother trails than hikers do. Hikers step over waterbars and cross-drains where wheels need buried culverts. In New England and other forested worlds where veggie debris gets blown and kicked into ditches, open waterbars and cross-drains are the way to drain trails because they are easily cleaned by maintainers. While it is true that trailside ditches also collect debris that has to be cleaned out and thrown downhill, the buried pipe culverts needed by wheeled vehicles are harder to clean and much more likely to dam with debris and fail, sending water down the trail tread. Maintainers do not get out and clean the drains after every downpour.

Second, the mtn bike community has developed guidelines and techniques for their type of trail that account for their needs, and they have at least one team of roving instructors who travel the country to instruct local clubs of riders on the proper building and upkeep of these trails, plus manuals like ours. Therefore there is no technical reason why they cannot have more trails they can ride, especially where they are willing to maintain them. As another poster mentioned, logging and similar access roads are quite suitable for this use as they already have adequate surface, grades, and drainage.
There is also a considerable literature on multi-use trails, resolving user conflicts, signage, etc.

Third, we who travel in wilderness do so with many technological aids, from boots to hats and everything between. I've hiked my share of trails and never met a completely nude hiker. My point here is that the level of technology we take to the wilderness is a matter of degree. In federally designated wilderness (FDW) areas we trailworkers are not allowed to used tools run by gasoline motors no matter how efficient or helpful they are; instead, we have to use muscle-powered tools only. By that logic, mtn bikes should be allowed in FDW because they too are powered only by muscles.

Creag nan drochaid

Becca M said:

I just haven't seen mtn bike damage in the WMNF - where is everybody seeing it?

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I gave the trail name in my original message - specifically the E side

brianW said:

However, one trail, Ravens Cliffs Trail had significant damage to it from hikers, muddy, trail getting wider, camp sites all along the banks of Dodds Creek, etc. I was amazed at the trails conditions and this was the only one that was is a designated wilderness area, Ravens Cliff Wilderness.

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That's not a surprise to me. Wilderness trails are maintained to a lower standard so with similar use levels they should be expected to erode more.

brianW said:

In my opinion, to help expand designated Wilderness Areas in this country is to open them up to mt bikes.

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My opinion is that we already have too much Wilderness where Wilderness is defined as land desired to look natural. Note that the WMNF has other zones principally managed for use by hikers with no logging allowed (the A.T. zone and the semi-primitive non-motorized recreation zone) which is where heavily-used trails should be.

I think that we are forgetting the primary reason for setting aside Wilderness areas. Their primary reason for being is not as places of recreation, rather, they are meant to be preserves of land in a wild state. Sometimes, they are places that have seen virtually no intrusion by humans, in other instances they are being reclaimed by nature. Some are in remote areas, others are relatively close to major urban areas. There are those that would prohibit any development, such as hiking trails, and even human access. Instead, we have decided that having a few, minimally maintained trails will protect the wildness best, allowing people to experience it, but focusing our intrusion and damage.

Instead of bemoaning the inability to recreate in a very small area, why not celebrate the fact that we have had the foresight to try to protect a small remaining area of wildness.

AMF said:

Not to wade into the issue of impact or lack thereof for mtn bikes on trails, its the whole issue of wheels in wilderness areas. Kayak / canoe wheeled dollies are prohibited as well.

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As are sailboats. Consensus is that wrapping a tarp around two paddles and holding it up is kosher, but there are some BWCAW holy wars over that