Calling all backcountry skiing experts

Sorry to talk about this at this time of the year…
I own two ski setups and I think I would need a third one to fit « in the middle » to do backcountry tours involving more downhill. Here is what I currently have:
Atomic Diran 106-72-97; G3 Targa all-mountain; Garmont Synergy
Fischer E99 68-55-62 (waxable), Voile 3 pins; Garmont Excusion

I use the Diran setup for resort telemark and steep backcountry downhill. I use the E99 setup for all other backcountry trips. The E99 is difficult to turn due the double camber. I was thinking about buying a new setup that I would use when the full telemark gear is overkill but the E99 are not enough. I think I would use it with a Voile 3 pins and my Excursions. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you.

All roads might lead to Rome, but the backcountry route usually goes through Dave's Nordic Backcountry Skiing Page.

EDIT: And by the way, WHAT THE #$%*! ARE YOU APOLOGIZING FOR? I was just fantasizing a little earlier this morning as I passed by the Voile shovel hanging in the basement . . .

Or Dave Metsky......

Check out the Fischer S-Bound series, good mix of touring and turning.

Sardog, I appreciate the kind words.

Y.L., the shortest possible answer would be to get some Fischer Rebounds.

A slightly longer answer would be to suggest any of what I call the Narrow Shaped skis. I've only spent time on the Rebounds, but folks I trust say there are noticable differences between the different variations of this theme.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/bc-skis.html#NARROW-SHAPED

Now, an even longer and more convoluted answer is that you can use just any Narrow Shaped ski, Classic AT profiled ski or even a Wide Shaped ski (or light tele equivalant). For that matter, you could even go as skinny and as cheap as a Classic Slalom style ski, so long as it is soft flexing. Which is to say, there are just loads of options with many different trade offs.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/quick-picks.html#turns
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/quick-picks.html

And now to totally screw you up... Are you sure you can live with just one ski between the E99 and your tele stuff? I've got 3 different skis in between those 2 types, all of which saw regular duty last year (so much as there was snow on the ground) and yet another ski in the barn that just doesn't get taken out much. Those 3 skis are the BD Sychro (72/54/63), Garmont Monashee (90/70/80 - a classic AT ski) and the Fischer Rebound. For many years the Synchro has been my preferred camping ski. Much faster kick and glide than wider skis but more stability and easier on tight trails than E99s. And the Monashee has been my long time favorite for turns in the fluff off trail. It's too early to tell, especially since last year was such a bust but the Rebound just may combine both of them. They're super light and suprisingly good at kick and glide despite the width. But I need to spend more time on them before I could call them the one ski to replace them all.

Great to be talking about skiing again. I agree with Dave Metsky about the Fisher rebounds. Don't let the double camber of these boards dissuade you. They initiate short radius turns just fine,especially with the Excursions driving them. MY wife has that exact set-up. I turn mine with lighter leather boots and do fine until I have to put these skis on edge in hardpack--then my wife does much better. Also look at similar ski from Alpina. Check with EMS and Ragged MT. Sports in North Conway to see if they have any last years stock left over at discount.

yardsale said:

I agree with Dave Metsky about the Fisher rebounds.

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Among the paths that have been trod before on this forum is the Dave Metsky/Dave Mann "Praise the Wrong Guy Tour." And both of them are too self-effacing to make much note of it, so I'll step in.

For the record:

1. Metsky never signs anything Dave M. or dave.m so far as I know. He is the proprietor of the excellent Hike the Whites!.

2. Mann signs informally as dave.m. He is the proprietor of the aforementioned, and also excellent, Dave's Nordic Backcountry Skiing Page, and he made the recommendation for the Fischer Rebounds here.

To confuse matters slightly, just as a warning: Both of them are frequent and expert contributors on the subject of backcountry skiing and other matters montane. (For all I know, Metsky might even have a pair of Rebounds in his quiver . . . )

Yardsale,

Dave.M isn't Dave Metsky, but no matter, they both know of which they speak.

I love my Excursions/Rebounds/Riva cable setup. In reality, it's not always the skis that make turning comfortable, it's the boots. Each level of stiffness up yields big gains in ability. Excursions are about as soft as they come and still allow an intermediate like me to look halfway capable, but I'd prefer T2's or something like that if I was out in nasty stuff or where I needed to make quick turns. But then, I've seen people tele'ing on skate skis, so your skill level will dictate your choice.

It's September, the kids are back to school and my thoughts turn to snow and ice!!!

I am a beginner backcountry skier. I got some great advice from the aformentioned web sites by Dave M. and by Dave Metsky. I ended up getting Fischer Rebound skis, I mounted them with Targa G3 bindings and I have Garmont Excursion boots. I could only get one set of skis so I wanted something that I could take some turns in as well as travel some distances. I felt that the turns were slightly more important so I went with sightly beefer bindings.

Let's hope for lots of snow and some great ice this winter. Snow for skiing and ice for climbing!

Many thanks to all of you for these good advices. I will have a look at the Rebounds. But the fact that they have the double camber is worrying me. Do you think that these will turn much easier than my E99. That’s what I’m looking for. I guess that I can’t know for sure until I try them…

A few other questions: I was thinking about using Voile 3 pins cable on them, but I see that a poster is using them with Riva cable. Which binding would you suggest for Rebounds with Excursion boots?

Another question: I will have to buy skins. I use Black Diamond GlideLite STS on my telemark skis. I like them. I was planning on buying the same thing. Does that make sense? Should I go with straight or trimmed skins?

sardog1 said:

Among the paths that have been trod before on this forum is the Dave Metsky/Dave Mann "Praise the Wrong Guy Tour."

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GUFFAW

Well, Dave Metsky's web pages pre-date mine by many, many years and he's been on this forum a lot more than me so I concede the name space to minimize confusion! From now on, I'll be sure to include my other nom de plume of "pinnah" in my sig.

sardog1 said:

Both of them are frequent and expert contributors on the subject of backcountry skiing and other matters montane.

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Just to clarify. If there is any thing of any value on my skiing pages, it's only because I've been able to skim off and collect all the excellent advice, input and opinions on this and other similar boards. Keep the discussions going and pray for snow.

Y.L. said:

Many thanks to all of you for these good advices. I will have a look at the Rebounds. But the fact that they have the double camber is worrying me. Do you think that these will turn much easier than my E99. That’s what I’m looking for. I guess that I can’t know for sure until I try them…

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I have a set of "camber-and-a-half" backcountry skis. They kick-and-glide well and turn better than my double camber skis but not as well as single camber skis. My favorite backcountry skis for covering ground. Learned to Tele on these skis...

Another of my sets of skis is a lightweight Tele (Tua Traverse). Single camber, 90/67/80 profile, and no groove (mounted with Voile 3-pin cables). Nice for turning, but when using them for kick-and-glide, they tend to slide out to the side at the end of my kick, perhaps due to the lack of a groove. This slide-out does consume energy to control and makes them less suitable for covering ground.

A few other questions: I was thinking about using Voile 3 pins cable on them, but I see that a poster is using them with Riva cable. Which binding would you suggest for Rebounds with Excursion boots?

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Can't speak to this particular combination, but I have a set of the Voile 3-pin cables as mentioned above. They are a nice "bit of both" worlds. Also light and inexpensive.

Another question: I will have to buy skins. I use Black Diamond GlideLite STS on my telemark skis. I like them. I was planning on buying the same thing. Does that make sense? Should I go with straight or trimmed skins?

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Should be ok. I have straight skins. The shaped skins gain you a bit of grip (only needed if you want to climb the steepest slopes) and are a good bit less convient to handle. Think about folding them glue-to-glue when the shapes of both ends differ...

One other advantage of straight skins is that you can fit them to more than one pair of skis. (I attach the tail by leaving it long and wrapping it over the tail of the ski and fastening it down with a Voile strap. (The strap goes between the ski bottom and the skin glue.) This allows me to fit the skin to a range of ski lengths.)

Doug

Y.L. said:

Many thanks to all of you for these good advices. I will have a look at the Rebounds. But the fact that they have the double camber is worrying me. Do you think that these will turn much easier than my E99. That’s what I’m looking for. I guess that I can’t know for sure until I try them…

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YL, the difference in turning is night and day. Compared to the Rebounds, the E99s don't turn. Of course, they do turn but the difference is really that dramatic.

Y.L. said:

A few other questions: I was thinking about using Voile 3 pins cable on them, but I see that a poster is using them with Riva cable. Which binding would you suggest for Rebounds with Excursion boots?

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Pins, pins, pins.

IMO, any cable binding really hampers decent striding ability. I'm very opinionated on this issue thought and recognize that others disagree.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/bc-bindings.html

BTW, I think one thing that helps is Smile Plates.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/smiley-plates.html

Y.L. said:

Another question: I will have to buy skins. I use Black Diamond GlideLite STS on my telemark skis. I like them. I was planning on buying the same thing. Does that make sense? Should I go with straight or trimmed skins?

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I use straight skins with a rat tail attachment.

HTH

I'm willing to trade some striding ability for the convenience of not having to fit pins into boot holes - after a few frustrating trips on freezing slush. I'm lazy and don't want to have to think about equipment when I'm out there.

I looked at the Rebonds on http://www.fischer-ski.com/en . It looks like it is available only with the ”Mountain Crown” base (i.e. not waxable). I’m not a fan of waxless skis… Maybe I should go with the waxable Outtabonds…? They are larger at the waist (88-68-78 instead of 88-60-78). I guess they would float more in the powder, but turn less easily. What do you think?

I've not skied on the Outtabounds and at the risk of reducing ski feel to side cut (a big mistake), I should not that I spend more time on my Garmont Monashees (90/70/80) than any other ski. I like the 70mm underfoot and feel it gives me the right balance of float in soft snow and turning quickness.

Now, I should really emphasize a point that Steve Barnett has frequently made about other skis in that soft snow turning as as much to do with a soft round flex as it does with sidecut. The Garmont Monashee (same ski as the old laminated version of the Karhu Outbound and Kneissl Tourstar) has a great round flex. And both of the Fischers you've mentioned plus the recent Karhu skis is that they have a more pronounced camber.

I just don't have enough time on the Rebounds yet to comment. Initial response to a few outings last year is that they are awsome in shallow snow and super easy to turn. But I've not skied them in deep snow so I don't know if the firmer camber or extreme sidecut will win out. I would be a bit concerned about Outtabound in this regard, but folks I know who ski them love them. I'm not shocked. I really like the 90/70/80 profile.

If you don't like no-wax (neither do I) there are 2 options. One would be to hunt for used and soft AT type skis. Another is to have the Rebound converted to waxable. This requires a base repair machine that can lay down a sheet of p-tex. There is a shop in Worchester Mass that can do this. They converted by BD Synchros to waxable (and I've never regretted it). But this is an extreme measure.

Thanks again for your advices. I’m not really interested in hunting for AT skis or having the base machined… My question now is: Which skis would be the closest to the Rebounds, but with a waxable base?

yardsale said:

Great to be talking about skiing again.

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Ahh now you've gone and done it!...They don't let me out of my cage for another month; so be nice and don't use the "S" word to much.

It looks like the new Atomic Limit will be close in terms of sidecut.
http://www.atomicsnow.com/atomic.php?id=63&s=96

No idea about flex of the type of bases available.

Y.L. said:

Thanks again for your advices. I’m not really interested in hunting for AT skis or having the base machined… My question now is: Which skis would be the closest to the Rebounds, but with a waxable base?

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Kicker skins: one more reason not to get waxless...

There are conditions where the waxless are better than waxable--eg changable or wet conditions. Being a confirmed wax bigot who has been caught by poor waxing conditions once or twice too often, I got a pair of 42mm kicker skins (which can be used on any of my skis, covering 55mm and up ski waist widths). They are big enough to give a good kick, but small enough to give a good glide in most conditions.

I have compared the kicker skins to my waxless (Karhu 10th Mtn which do pretty well for waxless) in fairly fresh damp snow at about 32F--they were very similar. (My friend was using her waxables with my kicker skins and we swapped them off. She had found even Swix special red to give inadequate grip for the conditions.)


I have talked to the salemen in some of the local (Boston area) ski shops (eg REI) about the lack of waxable BC skis on the shelves and they have told me that there is very little demand. Perhaps you will find a better choice in North Conway or mail order. I would recommend Tua Traverses, but Tua went out of business a few years ago...

Doug