Fitness levels and training (What the HECK!!?)

[DougPaul]

That said you should also consider that the muscle groups you use for going up hill are different from the ones you use going down hill. It's important to keep both in balance.

More than that, the uphill (muscles producing energy=concentric contractions) use a different mechanism than the downhill (muscles absorbing energy=eccentric contractions). Both need to be trained...

Things like a stair climber or cycling will train the uphill but not the downhill mechanisms. One of the advantages of the climb and descend a convenient small hill method of training is that it trains both mechanisms.

A search on "eccentric concentric" brings up 10 threads, most of which have relevant information.

Doug

 

[kaseri]

I climb stadium stairs for 2+ hours with 80 lbs on my back. I do this both days of the weekend when I'm not actually out in the mountains. The benefit of doing this is the hit your muscles take while downclimbing the stairs. This is a perfect example of strength endurance training.

 

[Stash]

There's an inverse relationship between age and motabolism. It usually takes some years to recognize. When you finally understand in your 40's that you can only eat and drink half as much and need to excercise twice as much to only accomplish half what you could in your 20's, well, first you scream...

You folks are talking like 41 is ancient! C'mon! You're not even half way done yet. At 41 I was in way better shape than 21 and at 50 I'm not much worse for wear. Key is don't stop.

 

[David Metsky]

Key is don't stop.

You don't stop hiking because you get old. You get old because you stop hiking.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

More than that, the uphill (muscles producing energy=concentric contractions) use a different mechanism than the downhill (muscles absorbing energy=eccentric contractions). Both need to be trained...

Things like a stair climber or cycling will train the uphill but not the downhill mechanisms. One of the advantages of the climb and descend a convenient small hill method of training is that it trains both mechanisms.

A search on "eccentric concentric" brings up 10 threads, most of which have relevant information.

Doug

Yeah, don't neglect the eccentric - I learned this the hard way!

Tim

 

[smitty77]

First of all, congrats on the lifestyle and body changes!

I am by no means an expert on this so I will give my thoughts from my personal experience:

I am not athletically gifted. Not the fastest, not the strongest, always a bit overweight (think husky build). But I could go uphill for hours on end at a decent pace since I was 5, which is when I started hiking and backpacking. I was never blazing fast, but I could just go-and-go-and-go. I finished the 48 at the age of 11 with notable long days like Owls Head and a Carter Range traverse (both 18+ miles) under my belt by the age of 10. I'd pass fit hikers on the trail huffing and puffing, knowing exactly what they're thinking: How is that chubby kid passing me?!?! And it's not like I was training for this specifically. Like Tim mentioned previously, I am also a "diesel" in that when the incline comes I can pick a pace that keeps me just below "redline" and maintain it for an extended period, sometimes and hour or more without a significant rest. It's something I've always been able to do. I think genetics plays a role in this, but I also think you can train your body to be used in one manner or another. And I think you just need to train your body to do this.

I will also respectfully disagree that the best training for hiking is hiking. My dad got into hiking and backpacking in the 70s because his road racing club was looking for a training activity during the offseason. Having been both a hiker and recreational cyclist I can attest that my natural endurance ability was just as handy in cycling, especially in the hills. I could find a gear and a good tempo and just suffer for miles going uphill. And sometimes it really is suffering - suffering that puts a grimace on your face but a smile on your soul.

As for how to build this endurance, I think you need to just put the time in. On the trail, stairmaster, treadmill, exercise bike, whatever. Get on, find a pace that will barely allow you to talk and hold it there for a long time (I go for about 45 minutes including warm-up and cool-down). Pro cyclists don't train for long stage races of 6-8 hours or more by doing just intervals and weight training mixed with some cardio. They get on the bike and ride, and ride, and ride some more. You're essentially putting your body through the same torture on a 10 mile hike.

And Kaseri mentioned something on RocksOnTop in a Weight Loss Thread that stuck with me. I've quoted the full text, but the important part is in bold:

"ANY workout you do should take no longer than 30 mins. 45 mins is pushing it. It's a simple recipe, the harder you work the less time you need to spend in the gym and the greater your rewards will be. The problem is that most people don't push themselves as hard as they should in the gym. Most people think they know what "pushing it" means but in my experience they must have someone next to them coaching them along to really understand what pushing it means."

 

[Snowflea]

You folks are talking like 41 is ancient! C'mon! ...Key is don't stop.

I know 70+ year olds who regularly run--and finish--tough 100 mile trail runs. What is this "middle-aged angst" of which you speak?

You don't stop hiking because you get old. You get old because you stop hiking.

Oh so true. It's much easier to stay in shape if you never get out of shape...

Stinky (in way better shape than I ever was in college) feet

 

[brianW]

Would love to hike lots more...but, kids, working schedule, and distance from the mountains make it so we find it difficult to get more than 1 - 2, 10-milers per month.

I do watch my footing...but, I don't think that much? I tend to "trip/fall" more on the way down...he he he...

My sugestion for the kids, take them with you, let it be to the Whites or a local trail. If they are small enough strap them to your back. I have 4 girls(13,12,8,2) and have had them all in a backpack on hikes keeping up and a lot of times passing others with little on them. Also hopefully this will instill a love for the outdoors.

Also, no one mentioned, but if your gym offers "Spinning" classes try them out. I found them very useful in improving my endurance and speed. Plus if the instructor is good you will have a great time.

 

[una_dogger]

Best way to increase your hiking mileage is to hike more. Best way to increase your hiking speed is to hike faster.
It takes time.

If you can't hike often because of where you live, brisk walk. BRISK. For as long as your schedule allows. Everyday. Also, just anytime you are going up stairs, power up them. Make the most of any opportunity to challenge yourself. For instance, I have a short walk from an offsite parking garage to the hospital where I work. I either power walk or run it. Its two five minute extra bursts of energy each day. Make the most of those opportunities. We all have them every day, it may be just 2 minutes but make it the strongest two minutes you can.

One or two days a week of explosive intervals. For me, two 45 min spin boot camp classes a week and two 45 minute fast/faster runs get it done. Pushing yourself through barriers -- physical and mental.

Lighten your pack wieght. My summer pack with 100 oz of water is about 12 pounds. Lighter is faster and faster adds up to longer/farther.

I'm with Tim on more cardio, less strength. The only strength training I do is Pilates, 2-3 hours a week with a trainer. Getting deep into those muscles that will stabilize you will help you can go long without strain. I used to weight train but IMHO long strong muscles such as those you get from Pilates or Yoga lend themselves to endurance activities. Totally anectodotal, totally my opinion based on how I feel.

On the food thing, I eat 100-180 calorie power snacks about four to six times over the course of a full day hike. A couple Gu's, one handful of trail mix (approx 200 calories!), one or two Wasa's with natural PB or lowfat cream cheese, a starbucks doubleshot, a Pria 80 calorie bar or two or three. That's IT. I can't eat as much as LRiz because I am nearly twice her age, short and fat. (LOL) I personally don't understand how folks can manage to hike after eating big sandwiches. I'd pass out into a food coma! I look at a hike as an endurance event with awesome scenery. Food is just fuel for the ride. Too much and excess energy is diverted to digestion.

And finally, mini breaks so the lactic doesn't build up.

Happy Hiking. Happy hikers hike farther.

Find a formula that seems to work for you and keep going. You'll know what works for you if you keep at it and are open to tweeking.

And finally, I am full of $&^^. I know nothing of the subject.

 

[naturegirl]

Training...

I train on stairs with a loaded backpack and do some weight training but have also always walked everywhere since I have never owned a car...and I walk a lot. I also do yoga.

Pack weight is important for me since I'm 5'2" and about 105-110 lbs. Height can also affect speed on the trail...I'm good at scrambling but it can be challenging sometimes to keep up with those who are much taller. I've got a fairly high metabolism and tend to eat more prior to and after a hike...during the hike I snack on energy bars and salted nuts but mostly hydrate. I also hydrate prior to the hike.

I think everyone is different though and you just need to find what works right for your body.

 

[una_dogger]

I but it can be challenging sometimes to keep up .

Right on!

Hiking with those faster than you (at least every other hike or so) is a GREAT way to train to hike faster.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Many cycling coaches will tell you not to run or hike for cross training. XC or swimming. The reason is that the eccentric part will tear down your climbing ability. This was the cause of my patellar-femoral syndrome problems - I had virtually no eccentric component to my leg exercises for 12 years - I was specialized so much. The few winters I ran for cross training, I started out the cycling season lighter than when I did not run, but it took longer to get my 'cycling form'. Skate skiing turned out to be the most compatible winter cross-training for me.

So while some exercise is better than none, when it comes to specialization, it's hard to beat doing what you're training to do.

I do strongly agree with the quote about not pushing yourself hard enough when you are alone. There is no doubt that a group training ride of 6-10 riders will push you much, much harder than you could ever push alone. I once went on a training ride where Tyler Hamilton showed up. He towed 25-some-odd people around for nearly 40 miles. I hung on for dear life - the pace was at least as fast as a race. A personal trainer, while expensive, is worth it if you are totally serious.

Some people may not agree, which is fine. I know what has and hasn't worked for me.

Tim

 

[jrichard]

I think you just need to try stuff until you find something that works for you. And what works for you may change over time. It's a cliche, but listen to your body. Pay attention to the "experts", but don't get locked into their advice. (For fun, go to a used book store and read about expert advice from the 50s.)

I'm also at that 40-something age. In my early thirties, I noticed decreased endurance and increased various aches and pains. I tried many exercise regimes, from health club trainers, to physical therapists, to yoga, to something like kettleballs and so on.

My current plan is:
- Commute to work on a bicycle (two hours, hilly terrain, mountain bike - not spinning!) a few days a week The difference this makes for uphill hiking is nothing short of amazing. It's cardio work and also a quad workout.
- Do light core exercises (situps, pushups) other days.
- Yoga-like stretches every day. If I don't do this, I can feel my hamstrings, hipflexors, and IT band tighten. If I hike in this condition, I almost always get injured.

I was in the best hiking shape for the two weeks that I was hiking the Cohos trail. Like others said, hiking is really the best exercise for hiking. Just watch those AT hikers coming through Maine.

 

[smitty77]

Many cycling coaches will tell you not to run or hike for cross training. XC or swimming. The reason is that the eccentric part will tear down your climbing ability.

Yeah, they know a lot more about that stuff now than when he was racing which was back in the days of non-indexed derailleurs, toe straps, and brake cables flapping in the breeze. They were basically looking for a sport to keep up the conditioning when it was too cold and snowy to train and they didn't feel like spinning on the roller indoors any longer. They also did a lot of classic-style XC skiing.

Also, just anytime you are going up stairs, power up them.

Come to think of it, I've been in the habit of powering up a flight of stair two at a time since I can remember (12 or 13 maybe?). Maybe that's another benefit other than it being a time-saver.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

They were basically looking for a sport to keep up the conditioning when it was too cold and snowy to train and they didn't feel like spinning on the roller indoors any longer. They also did a lot of classic-style XC skiing.

That's how cyclocross was invented!

Tim

 

[WhiteMTHike]

I spend quite a bit of time in the gym either I am doing strength training or cardio; I alternate. As far as the strength training is concerned, I find there are two types of styles. Training for muscular strength requires heavy weights with low reps for each set. Training for muscular endurance is the opposite approach. I will do either depending on what I want to train for. For hiking purposes I take the muscular endurance route which is what I consider to be a light weight for high reps (20-30) each set.

Just something to consider, it works well for me at least.

 

[Mike P.]

41, around here your probably in the younger half, at 133, your almost half the human I am too(for a while it was close but I'm working on that)

40 pounds is too much for pack weight for your size, there must be a couple of pieces of fleece you can leave home. In the summer, 12-15 should be doable, I do a lot of solos & carry too much & mine is probably 20 pounds (less than 10% of my weight)

Read some of the post, not all, has anyone touched upon pace yet? Are you going at top speed down low & getting tired too quickly. maybe a little slower out of the gate would help.

When I've tried to keep up with faster hikers, I usually get tired too quickly, catch up to them while they are waiting for me & when I need a break after catching up, their ready to go again & their rested while I'm bushed.

Planning a few minutes each hour is a good thing to do, sometimes you can skip them if your someplace flat on the way out, saw descending Bondcliff but on the way up a few minutes sitting with the pack off will recharge you.

Hitting a local state park or hill with a heavy pack to train would be better than a treadmill or stairmaster but having it a decent incline with a pack would be good too.

(Keep up the weight work, in the end of 2008, I developed a bone spur behind my left knee. To that point I was having a very active year for a then 47 year old, problem was the walking, hiking, jogging was the same movement & no weight trainng to keep the knee muscles strong, the knee was tracking slightly out of where it should have been. Multiple left ankle injuries playing sports & not recovering has probably slightly altered my gait which is why the left knee went first. Rest & different exercises where the Rx. Mono in 2009 helped with the rest)

 

[sierra]

While my response will lack any scientific credibility here goes anyway. Some people are gifted mountain climbers period. Ive seen guys sucking wind at 14,000 ft, that are marthoners down low, where as I can hike pretty dang good at altitude and I still smoke. This is not to suggest that training wont help, because it should, but some people just have the right stuff. One other important item, people who can push themselves when in a suffering mode, can ussually hike faster then those who sucumb to stressing of thier body. Everyone has a threshold, youmust increase yours by pushing yourself harder and harder, or just get used to your speed and live with it.

 

[kaseri]

people who can push themselves when in a suffering mode, can ussually hike faster then those who sucumb to stressing of thier body.

There are three parts to being strong in the mountains. Strength endurance, proper nutrition and mental strength. In my opinion mental strength cannot be acquired or taught. You either have it and can push your body through pain and fatigue or you don't. I've trained many boxers over the years and the most successful ones were not those with natural abilities but rather those with tremendous mental strength. I've had a handful with all three and the result is pure magic.

The same can be said for mountaineering.

Remember, strength endurance comes from heavy weight, long duration sets (for time is better than for reps) and no breaks between exercises.

 

[una_dogger]

40 pounds is too much for pack weight for your size,

That is probably your issue!!! For comparison, my pack on a week long backpack is 40 pounds, and my speed on those hikes is reduced to about 1-1.5 mph and I am WHOOPED at the end of the day.

Lighten that load -- you'll see an immediate difference!