I hope VFTT does not become the new medium for all the people who caused Mountains and Molehills to dissappear. Im not saying that anyone here is doing that, just that I hope it does not become a trend.
Help Support vftt.org:
spencer
New member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Messages
- 1,483
- Reaction score
- 194
I think we should leash the people who ask questions about dogs in the woods.
however, I also think the screen name "scree flinger" is funny....
spencer
however, I also think the screen name "scree flinger" is funny....
spencer
ALGonquin Bob
Well-known member
I love dogs, but leave it home on hikes that could be dangerous to you or the animal. In the High Peaks, "under control" means leashed -always.
This happened to me on Slide Mtn.(Catskills) just last month: As I neared the summit plateau, a small dog suddenly came down the trail, charging me at full speed. It startled me, to say the least. I have been a dog owner most of my life, but this charging animal took me by surprise and really bothered me. Immediately after I saw the dog, the owner appeared with leash in hand. He proceded to relate to me how the elderly man ahead of me was so afraid, that he "maced the dog"(as the owner put it). This dog owner thought that his dog was under control, and couldn't understand why that older man, or myself, would be upset. I held back, and just said that I didn't blame the other man for spraying the dog, if it charged him like that. When I caught up with the elderly man, he related the incident to me, explaining that he had been attacked by a dog, and now is very cautious. He explained that he didn't "mace the dog", but he did put a cloud of pepper spray between himself and the animal, as a precaution. So, all three of us were upset by this. Simply having the dog on a leash would have prevented all of it, and there would have been no incidents to be upset about! Your dog is under control until somebody walks around that corner, and your animal gets too close for somebody elses comfort. Please just be considerate of others.
This happened to me on Slide Mtn.(Catskills) just last month: As I neared the summit plateau, a small dog suddenly came down the trail, charging me at full speed. It startled me, to say the least. I have been a dog owner most of my life, but this charging animal took me by surprise and really bothered me. Immediately after I saw the dog, the owner appeared with leash in hand. He proceded to relate to me how the elderly man ahead of me was so afraid, that he "maced the dog"(as the owner put it). This dog owner thought that his dog was under control, and couldn't understand why that older man, or myself, would be upset. I held back, and just said that I didn't blame the other man for spraying the dog, if it charged him like that. When I caught up with the elderly man, he related the incident to me, explaining that he had been attacked by a dog, and now is very cautious. He explained that he didn't "mace the dog", but he did put a cloud of pepper spray between himself and the animal, as a precaution. So, all three of us were upset by this. Simply having the dog on a leash would have prevented all of it, and there would have been no incidents to be upset about! Your dog is under control until somebody walks around that corner, and your animal gets too close for somebody elses comfort. Please just be considerate of others.
Last edited:
nietzschescat
New member
I hike with my friend and his toy poodle (fluffy and white).Dogs are not required to be leashed in the Catskills but he always puts her on a leash when we hear someone coming on the trail.
I have taken long walks in the woods with cats. They stay pretty close once they are out of their territory and they meow a lot.
I did see a funny thing one time hiking. There was a woman with a pug dog in a little sling, like a baby carrier. The poodle, who was covered in mud by this point, was pretty disturbed.
I have taken long walks in the woods with cats. They stay pretty close once they are out of their territory and they meow a lot.
I did see a funny thing one time hiking. There was a woman with a pug dog in a little sling, like a baby carrier. The poodle, who was covered in mud by this point, was pretty disturbed.
shadowcat
New member
cat hikers
years ago my cat "bloomers" used to come for walks with me in the woods around my house. she was so much fun and really good. if she fell behind to stop & check stuff out; all of a sudden she'd tear up the path to catch up w/ me. some of my other cats over the years have been leash trained; shadow was awesome and walked all over like a dog. "daks" who was rescued 2 yrs ago has no desire to go back outside. after surviving that awful winter 2 yrs ago where we got a lot of snow he is a happy camper to stay inside & enjoy indoor luxuries. i totally enjoy the bond i have with my critters and if i had a dog would love to take it with me hiking. there's always going to be pros & cons & stupid, rude or otherwise misinformed people. i await the day we debate whether or not cats, children under 12, seniors or hikers wearing flip-flops should be leashed!
have a great wkend!
years ago my cat "bloomers" used to come for walks with me in the woods around my house. she was so much fun and really good. if she fell behind to stop & check stuff out; all of a sudden she'd tear up the path to catch up w/ me. some of my other cats over the years have been leash trained; shadow was awesome and walked all over like a dog. "daks" who was rescued 2 yrs ago has no desire to go back outside. after surviving that awful winter 2 yrs ago where we got a lot of snow he is a happy camper to stay inside & enjoy indoor luxuries. i totally enjoy the bond i have with my critters and if i had a dog would love to take it with me hiking. there's always going to be pros & cons & stupid, rude or otherwise misinformed people. i await the day we debate whether or not cats, children under 12, seniors or hikers wearing flip-flops should be leashed!
have a great wkend!
DeadFred
New member
tick, tock...
tick, tock...
tick, tock...
tick, tock...
tick, tock...
I think scree flinger brings up a good point here. Forget about the dog thing for a minute and consider how many of the people who think it's ok to "break the rules" with the pooches, yet are appauled when other hikers "illegally" camp. Just food for thought...
jbrown
New member
Well, as a dog owner and hiker I thought I should toss my 2 cents in.
I have had encounters on and off the trail when hiking/walking with my dog.
My boy has been attacked more than once by dogs that "never did that before," one was not leashed and took a hard kick in the ribs to get off.
He's a 3 year old black lab, about 100 lbs, very excitable, potentially very scary looking. Although I know that he's as harmless as a large harmless thing (no metaphor came readily to mind...) I realize that he could scare the crap out of people. One of our good friends is terrified of any dog, that's ANY dog. I have seen her tremble with fear at a shih-tzu.
If I am in an area where I cannot see a long distance up the trail, he's on the leash. If I am in an area where he is legally supposed to be on the leash, he's on the leash. Heck, I put him on the leash when we were in an area where there were huge mud wallows in the trail from ATV traffic because I didn't want him to trash my car later.
Anyway, I can see the problem with unleashed dogs heading in the same direction as the bear canister regulations. If people choose to ignore the rules, we'll just get more rules that we don't want. "Forget the leash rule..."? Not while I'm out there with my dog.
Later
Josh
I have had encounters on and off the trail when hiking/walking with my dog.
My boy has been attacked more than once by dogs that "never did that before," one was not leashed and took a hard kick in the ribs to get off.
He's a 3 year old black lab, about 100 lbs, very excitable, potentially very scary looking. Although I know that he's as harmless as a large harmless thing (no metaphor came readily to mind...) I realize that he could scare the crap out of people. One of our good friends is terrified of any dog, that's ANY dog. I have seen her tremble with fear at a shih-tzu.
If I am in an area where I cannot see a long distance up the trail, he's on the leash. If I am in an area where he is legally supposed to be on the leash, he's on the leash. Heck, I put him on the leash when we were in an area where there were huge mud wallows in the trail from ATV traffic because I didn't want him to trash my car later.
Anyway, I can see the problem with unleashed dogs heading in the same direction as the bear canister regulations. If people choose to ignore the rules, we'll just get more rules that we don't want. "Forget the leash rule..."? Not while I'm out there with my dog.
Later
Josh
I love dogs and my kids love dogs even though we don't have any (allergies). However up until my son was about 9 his immediate reaction to any dog which appeared moving in his direction was to levitate straight into the air and to scramble/climb up the nearest object which was usually me. I have known a few adults with reactions almost as bad. Dog owners need to at the least have leashes ready to hand and be putting them on if people seem at all uncomfortable. Explaining that a dog is a good dog is only reassuring to someone who has some comfort with dogs already.
I speak as someone who has been around dogs all their life and been bit. The biting encounter I take responsibility for as someone who supposedly knows how to handle dogs. I should have recognized an overexcited dog and not encouraged it to play rough. Not everyone has the experience to deal with dogs and as I illustrated even an old hand makes mistakes.
I speak as someone who has been around dogs all their life and been bit. The biting encounter I take responsibility for as someone who supposedly knows how to handle dogs. I should have recognized an overexcited dog and not encouraged it to play rough. Not everyone has the experience to deal with dogs and as I illustrated even an old hand makes mistakes.
shadowcat
New member
ya the whole dog issue is always a debate. just sunday we were hiking up twin in the catskills and some folks were coming down. all of a sudden this dog comes running down the trail behind them & passes them. it caught them off guard & one of the hikers slipped (lots of leaves covering lots of loose rocks) & they almost wiped out. a bit later the owners caught up to the dog - totally oblivious to what happened. believe me, i do understand why folks like to take their dogs with but being realistic, i just see too many down sides to it. if you don't have to leash them, you have to make sure they aren't romping onto fragile pieces of land, chasing wildlife, crapping on the trail or scarring other hikers. if they are leashed, seems like you'll spend 1/2 your energy just hanging onto them and keeping them under control. how the heck you hike while holding onto a leash trying to keep your dog from wanting to run faster than you can move and use hiking poles and navigate rocks & climbing, icy conditions etc is beyond me. then there's concerns such as the rough ground tearing up the pads on their feet, frostbite or ticks/lyme disease etc etc etc. just seems like too many variables to worry about. i don't know, like i said i understand the bond we have with our critters and i know the animals love to be outdoors but maybe these hiking trails aren't the best place for this experience? certainly there's got to be any number of other places to take pets for some fun & exercise outdoors? please, like i said i understand; just trying to be realistic and fair.
ADackR
New member
shadowcat,
you'd be amazed at what an animal (dog) can do after hiking for sometime... just as a human adjusts to hiking in different conditions and environments a dog can adjust faster... over time, if you take a dog out in all elements their pads, coat and skills improve to a point where they can get through just about anything...
sure it takes some worrying in the begining but that goes away with time and proper training...
i don't know, like i said i understand the bond we have with our critters and i know the animals love to be outdoors but maybe these hiking trails aren't the best place for this experience? certainly there's got to be any number of other places to take pets for some fun & exercise outdoors? please, like i said i understand; just trying to be realistic and fair.
don't take this the wrong way but this is funny because if your standard isn't met and it's ruined by an animal on the trail, then those animals and owners need to find a new outlet...when in actuality anyone is entitled to be on that trail..
it's almost to the double standard of snowmobiles in the forrests....sure they pay for using those machines in the forrests and are intitled too BUT so are we and we want to use the trails and NOT have those machines around...
it's comical really, to think that State land is out there for everyone's use but in reality that use is held to a double standard...
in no way do i intend this to be a pissing match... i was just stating somthing that i have... an opinion...
happy hiking...
you'd be amazed at what an animal (dog) can do after hiking for sometime... just as a human adjusts to hiking in different conditions and environments a dog can adjust faster... over time, if you take a dog out in all elements their pads, coat and skills improve to a point where they can get through just about anything...
sure it takes some worrying in the begining but that goes away with time and proper training...
i don't know, like i said i understand the bond we have with our critters and i know the animals love to be outdoors but maybe these hiking trails aren't the best place for this experience? certainly there's got to be any number of other places to take pets for some fun & exercise outdoors? please, like i said i understand; just trying to be realistic and fair.
don't take this the wrong way but this is funny because if your standard isn't met and it's ruined by an animal on the trail, then those animals and owners need to find a new outlet...when in actuality anyone is entitled to be on that trail..
it's almost to the double standard of snowmobiles in the forrests....sure they pay for using those machines in the forrests and are intitled too BUT so are we and we want to use the trails and NOT have those machines around...
it's comical really, to think that State land is out there for everyone's use but in reality that use is held to a double standard...
in no way do i intend this to be a pissing match... i was just stating somthing that i have... an opinion...
happy hiking...
J
jade
Guest
Without Lassie, my childhood would have been a miserable disaster. June never insisted we leash Lassie, ever.
Please stop. I can't take it any more.
Sincerely, Timmy
Please stop. I can't take it any more.
Sincerely, Timmy
shadowcat
New member
me: "if you don't have to leash them, you have to make sure they aren't romping onto fragile pieces of land...."
you:"I have hiked many a mile and have yet to discover one of these "fragile pieces of land" Someone help me out here... Where in the Whites would there be one of these? Perhaps the Alpine Garden?" jasonst: i surprised you'd say something like that!
i thought this might be a valid point & one i don't recall seeing brought up in regards to letting dogs unleashed while hiking. also & i apologize, but i was always under the impression, well not impression so much but what i've been told by rangers, for example on marcy, people on this site & from reading about the daks (& other areas) that the reason WE are supposed to stay on the trails and to do everything possible to keep them from widening or going off into other directions is because we are supposed to be protecting the "fragile" environment along the way. so are you saying i've been misinformed all this time and it's ok to just tromp wherever we want now? us, dogs, kids whoever??? are you saying the whites don't have any type of rules about maintaining & protecting its environment? my reference was based on my understanding of the daks and catskills but i "assumed" most places had similar rules of thumb. sometimes i forget that others read these posts that aren't from my area so i don't always think about that when discussing certain topics - i reference what i am familiar with. geez
you: "because if your standard isn't met and it's ruined by an animal on the trail, then those animals and owners need to find a new outlet...when in actuality anyone is entitled to be on that trail.. "
First, I don't recall saying anything about "my standards". and i certainly never said anything about anyone meeting them! I was just trying to generalize about the topic of discussion & trying to come up with ideas on it. i am one of the biggest animal advocates out there & spend a lot of my free time doing what i can on thier behalf. truth be told if my "standards" were met 1/2 the folks on this planet would be outta here and animals would rock the world! and, i've always said that if i had a dog i'd probably have it out there with me too. see, the thing you don't get is that i am willing to try to see all sides of the issue, not just mine.
and you can't tell me in total honesty it isn't more work to take a dog hiking & keep it leashed then not, & that's why you like to let them run loose. it's easier for you & more fun for them! come on! be honest... who really wants to hang onto that leash, with a full pack on your back, hiking poles in hand, traversing over rocks, scree, loose dirt, over logs, thru mud , over streams, up hills, down steep grades, etc etc etc -- & try to hang onto a dog's leash & keep it under control all at the same time?
so don't be so hard on me - i'm the one going "oh lookit the cute cuddlie critter!"
you:"I have hiked many a mile and have yet to discover one of these "fragile pieces of land" Someone help me out here... Where in the Whites would there be one of these? Perhaps the Alpine Garden?" jasonst: i surprised you'd say something like that!
i thought this might be a valid point & one i don't recall seeing brought up in regards to letting dogs unleashed while hiking. also & i apologize, but i was always under the impression, well not impression so much but what i've been told by rangers, for example on marcy, people on this site & from reading about the daks (& other areas) that the reason WE are supposed to stay on the trails and to do everything possible to keep them from widening or going off into other directions is because we are supposed to be protecting the "fragile" environment along the way. so are you saying i've been misinformed all this time and it's ok to just tromp wherever we want now? us, dogs, kids whoever??? are you saying the whites don't have any type of rules about maintaining & protecting its environment? my reference was based on my understanding of the daks and catskills but i "assumed" most places had similar rules of thumb. sometimes i forget that others read these posts that aren't from my area so i don't always think about that when discussing certain topics - i reference what i am familiar with. geez
you: "because if your standard isn't met and it's ruined by an animal on the trail, then those animals and owners need to find a new outlet...when in actuality anyone is entitled to be on that trail.. "
First, I don't recall saying anything about "my standards". and i certainly never said anything about anyone meeting them! I was just trying to generalize about the topic of discussion & trying to come up with ideas on it. i am one of the biggest animal advocates out there & spend a lot of my free time doing what i can on thier behalf. truth be told if my "standards" were met 1/2 the folks on this planet would be outta here and animals would rock the world! and, i've always said that if i had a dog i'd probably have it out there with me too. see, the thing you don't get is that i am willing to try to see all sides of the issue, not just mine.
and you can't tell me in total honesty it isn't more work to take a dog hiking & keep it leashed then not, & that's why you like to let them run loose. it's easier for you & more fun for them! come on! be honest... who really wants to hang onto that leash, with a full pack on your back, hiking poles in hand, traversing over rocks, scree, loose dirt, over logs, thru mud , over streams, up hills, down steep grades, etc etc etc -- & try to hang onto a dog's leash & keep it under control all at the same time?
so don't be so hard on me - i'm the one going "oh lookit the cute cuddlie critter!"
shadowcat
New member
i guess it was the way you phrased it:
"I have hiked many a mile and have yet to discover one of these "fragile pieces of land" Someone help me out here... Where in the Whites would there be one of these? Perhaps the Alpine Garden?"
i have not hiked in the whites maybe it's just a lot of open rock? i just know that in the daks, especially at higher elevations they are very concerned about taking care of where we step and to avoid certain areas.
anyway, you know how it is when you get into one of these types of discussions & i should know better. no matter how hard you try to stay neutral or see both sides or be careful how you put things, a debate can get pulled out of anything. i guess sometimes i just think we all are guilty of being jaded and not being totally honest about why we chose to do the things we do.
"I have hiked many a mile and have yet to discover one of these "fragile pieces of land" Someone help me out here... Where in the Whites would there be one of these? Perhaps the Alpine Garden?"
i have not hiked in the whites maybe it's just a lot of open rock? i just know that in the daks, especially at higher elevations they are very concerned about taking care of where we step and to avoid certain areas.
anyway, you know how it is when you get into one of these types of discussions & i should know better. no matter how hard you try to stay neutral or see both sides or be careful how you put things, a debate can get pulled out of anything. i guess sometimes i just think we all are guilty of being jaded and not being totally honest about why we chose to do the things we do.
I would keep dogs on trail everywhere above treeline in the Whites. Unless you can figure a way to have them stay only on rocks.Jasonst said:
-dave-
ADackR
New member
i don't know, like i said i understand the bond we have with our critters and i know the animals love to be outdoors but maybe these hiking trails aren't the best place for this experience? certainly there's got to be any number of other places to take pets for some fun & exercise outdoors? please, like i said i understand; just trying to be realistic and fair.
my assumption caome from you're posting and at the end when you stated the above...
i then chose to pair it with the thinking of snowmobiles in the forrest and how similar peoples thoughts are with that subject....
i also look at both sides of the arguement, just as you say you do... but with a statement like this your only equateing yourself to the other side where they will say the rule doesn't apply to them and they think you should be hiking somewhere else.
look, i have stated before that i don't bring my dog the eastern high peaks during the summer months(once in winter actually). this is the only area that i know of that has such a leash rule.... i take my dog specifically to areas where a rule does not exist and allow her to roam freely.....however, i do leash her up when small children are around. i understand where the parent is coming from in this situation....but more often then not i've come accross people on the trail that give the deadliest looks once a dog is seen... i often just laugh (too myself) because i feel that a person is not open to be willing to understand my side, by having my dog on the trail..
that's it...
my assumption caome from you're posting and at the end when you stated the above...
i then chose to pair it with the thinking of snowmobiles in the forrest and how similar peoples thoughts are with that subject....
i also look at both sides of the arguement, just as you say you do... but with a statement like this your only equateing yourself to the other side where they will say the rule doesn't apply to them and they think you should be hiking somewhere else.
look, i have stated before that i don't bring my dog the eastern high peaks during the summer months(once in winter actually). this is the only area that i know of that has such a leash rule.... i take my dog specifically to areas where a rule does not exist and allow her to roam freely.....however, i do leash her up when small children are around. i understand where the parent is coming from in this situation....but more often then not i've come accross people on the trail that give the deadliest looks once a dog is seen... i often just laugh (too myself) because i feel that a person is not open to be willing to understand my side, by having my dog on the trail..
that's it...
IMHO, nobody would (or should) be complaining if all dogs were outfitted with a cask of brandy around their neck. A brandy near the summit is always welcomed. Also, on the trail! And if the hapless owner is nowhere in sight, then maybe a second brandy!
ADackR
New member
DeadFred said:Perhaps people should be banned from the trails and the dogs (and the plethora of other wildlife) should be allowed to roam free.
so nice, but what will happen to the politicains(sp?) and making rules like leash laws
also, i like you're signature
Similar threads
