Cannon Mountain - Environmental Damage, Hiking Prohibition, and SB217

[Kevin Rooney]

... my rant from one NH Taxpayer's point of view.

Isn't "NH Taxpayer" an oxymoron?!

 

[MichaelJ]

The issue is not whether hiking is allowed at Mittersill. The issue is whether the Cannon management closed the area to "hiking" in order to prevent the public from seeing, documenting and publicizing what is being done to the environment under the auspices of the state of New Hampshire.

If the issue is not about hiking being allowed or not, then why does the bill insist on new hiking trails being built? Not to mention the fact that hikers will still, under the auspices of this bill, be directed to hike only in the newly constructed trails. Finally, the trail is specifically laid out: "The first hiking corridor shall include the Tuckerbrook trail, the Mittersill Mountain trail over the Mittersill Mountain summit, and the Taft slalom ski trail to the summit of Cannon Mountain."

So tell, me oh, taxpayers of New Hampshire, how you feel about your money being spent to create a redundant, unnecessary hiking trail just to achieve someone's personal agenda?

It's also typical dirty politics to throw the renaming to "Veterans" in there so that anyone who objects looks like they're objecting to honoring veterans.

PS - Taft Slalom is NOT a safe trail to be mixing skiers and pedestrians.

 

[Silverfox]

I agree with Rocket and others on this thread. Having hiked Mittersill many times in the last few years..including just last week.. I can personally attest to the scarred landscape left behind by both heavy and light machinery. One section i n particular about half way up..formally a long mossy path through the woods with a narrow packed footway down the middle ..really a quiet gorgeous spot..was totally churned up and trashed by 4 wheelers, it will never recover. In many other places scrub, sub alpine, and meadow worn right down to ledge ..sure some of it happened from Irene..but some of it was there before then and certainly caused by heavy equipment traveling where it should not have been. I have been a skier for years and have also hiked many ski trails as well..the level of environmental damage here is extreme and I can see why they would want to hide it. The discarded trash in the woods is particularly disconcerting. Those who have not hiked there and seen the damage hold very little credence in my opinion.
To stop or restrict hikers from using glades, woods, and in places trails under the cover of "preventing erosion" is ludicrous and makes no sense.

 

[Stan]

Have never hiked either Mittersall or Cannon via the ski trails but have hiked a few other ski slopes and don't find them very pleasant routes to a summit. I guess they might be more appealing if someone told me I couldn't do it!

I haven't seen the devastation and trash a few people refer to but I have a different take on the hiking ban. Perhaps it is the prevention of that devastation and trash rather than the hiding of it which drives the ban. I assume the ban applies to ATV and other like recreational use not on skis.

Creating a ski slope out of the side of a forested mountain is no easy or delicate task. Of course there is going to be damage and a fragile situation when brush and trees are not allowed to recover in order to preserve the slope. The grasses, not unlike sea oats on a sand dune, can easily be destroyed by a herd path or wanton vehicle traffic ... this eventually leads to erosion and costly ruin of the slope.

Am I missing something here by feeling the bashing of the owners is a bit irrational and self centered?

 

[blacknblue]

2 things I'm wondering...

I wonder how these photos were taken in an area where no foot traffic is allowed. Was it before the prohibition?

I wonder how many hikers concerned about erosion on ski slopes go hiking during mud season.

 

[Red Oak]

Kudos to rocket.

Thank you Rocket for bringing attention to this nasty looking mess up there.I do not care who owns the land,to let it get like that is inexcusable!I have been around logging roads and construction sites my whole life and those pics. are bad for any site.I do believe we[hikers] all need to care about the appearance of our environs because it reflects who we are as a group.I would gladly hike up cannon and carry down what I can,lets set up a date?I would even carry my chainsaw up and help cut the hiker trail if needed.
I am not sure why the ski forum was so rough on you rocket,cannon is the one that used the "E" word to begin with.Very glad Views is not ripe with the acrimony of that ski site which caused me to go back and edit some of my previous comments....Peace

 

[una_dogger]

For those who haven't hiked it, the trail up over the Mittersall Ridge to Taft was a gorgeous sub alpine walk - reminiscent of areas like Fulling Mill Mountain in the Mahoosucs, with the added bonus of a Franconia Ridge View.

Heavy machinery had no business being up there traversing that ridge - this section is not a downhill ski slope - its a gentle traverse.

There is no way foot travel could have come anywhere near this level
Of impact. While I agree Taft from Upper Harscrabble to the summit house are not areas I would feel comfortable hiking on in ski season, suitable footpaths along the periphery could be built (the challenge here would be keeping skiers out of them and head on collisions with hikers)


I guess my point here is that maybe sometimes we need to see it with our own eyes to appreciate it, both the befores and afters.

 

[sardog1]

Am I missing something here by feeling the bashing of the owners is a bit irrational and self centered?

As one of the "owners" who has zero interest in hiking there and feels not the least bit irrational (for the moment ....), may I suggest that you acquaint yourself with the real issues here? -- Taxpayers For Cannon.

 

[peakbagger]

I will stay out of the hiking aspect of the situation and comment on what I consider the real issue. Siltation and erosion caused by heavy equipment is potentially an environmental crime. Prior to any significant construction work Best Management Practices (BMP)s for soil erosion must be taken into account and steps must be made to prevent and if not possible mitigate the damage. This is not optional, it is a legal requirement required of any party doing this type of work. This usually involves siltation control and soil stabilization. There also has to be a management plan in place to maintain the controls set in place until the area is stabilized which may be for quite a long time. Dependent upon the characterisation of the surrounding natural areas, some times work can not be permitted or it may be restricted to certain times of the year when the ground is frozen. As an example PSNH recently did some work in a low grade wetland in Gorham, they had to lay down wooden mats over the entire area in order to run heavy equipment and had to put siltation barriers in place around the work area. I expect this was a significant effort but the net result is that the underlying wetland had minimal impact and any damage that may have occured will most likely be short term. With regards to the debris left in place although unsightly, unless they are hazardous waste, I dont expect that they are in violation of any law.

Obviously I havent been on the site, but there appears to be documented photgraphs showing the before and after. Perhaps there are controls in place but the couple of hay bales stuck in an eroded ditch is most likely not the only mitigation required.

More than a few private citizens in NH have been cited and fined for not following the rules for this type of damage. I believe that NH is the delegated authority to enforce federal standards in regard to soil erosion so I expect that one state department isnt talking to another department. I expect in order for this to be mitigated an external party would have to take the lead to ensure that the rules are enforced for state entities as well as private citizens. Anyone know a courageous legislator?

Most folks dont realize the long range impact of erosion and siltation on the surrounding streams and natural areas and this impact can stretch quite a distance away from the obvious source of the contamination. There are some interesting long range studys in the Sunday River Watershed in Maine of the impact of ski area and surrounding development as well as the impact of logging roads that have been out of service for 40 or 50 years. (I unfortunately dont have any ones I can cite online, but have been to a few discussions on the topic) Of greatest concern is if the damage isnt mitgated it will continue to worsen and every major rain event will just carry more soil down the mountain and into the local streams.

It would be unfair to pick just on ski areas, hikers can and do cause similiar albeit smaller impacts and thats why trail standards (akin to BMP) are in place to mitigate the impact of hiking trails. There are numerous examples of trails where hikers have inadvertently cause trenches to form, I have seen some where the trail is 3 or 4 feet below the surrounding grade. Water bars are not just for the hiker convenience, they channel water off the trail before it can gain significant volume and velocity to erode down stream areas. Switchbacks have a similar purpose.

 

[JustJoe]

It's a shame this is off limits to hikers. I've seen that trail from Cannon many times. Never really knew what it was until this thread came up. What an awesome looking spot. Photo courtesy of G.E.

 

[Red Oak]

Most folks dont realize the long range impact of erosion and siltation on the surrounding streams and natural areas and this impact can stretch quite a distance away from the obvious source of the contamination. There are some interesting long range studys in the Sunday River Watershed in Maine of the impact of ski area and surrounding development as well as the impact of logging roads that have been out of service for 40 or 50 years. (I unfortunately dont have any ones I can cite online, but have been to a few discussions on the topic) Of greatest concern is if the damage isnt mitgated it will continue to worsen and every major rain event will just carry more soil down the mountain and into the local streams.

Very good point! And how many clearcuts did those logging roads lead to?The impact of the logging industry on the long term conservation of the north woods has always been a central issue up there.Selective cutting is the only way to go.
Look at the amazon basin for a case study on erosion and ecological disaster that follows.Clear cutting down there is helping choke our planet of air![not a political statement]
Every part of the world has a distinct soil type,erosion issues must be affected greatly by that?

 

[MichaelJ]

I will stay out of the hiking aspect of the situation and comment on what I consider the real issue.

I agree wholeheartedly. Take out the personal agenda of wanting to hike through the ski area and I'm on board with cleaning up the construction damage caused when reopening the closed ski area.

 

[Stan]

As one of the "owners" who has zero interest in hiking there and feels not the least bit irrational (for the moment ....), may I suggest that you acquaint yourself with the real issues here? -- Taxpayers For Cannon.

Thanks for that link. I do feel much better informed but still don't have a problem with the hiking ban though that is tempered by two things ... most of us have hiked carefully in worse conditions and more sensitive environments without incident with respect to our safety or the environment and, now that hiking is banned, it certainly is more inviting!

It would be amusing in this case the owners are the state of NH if the Sovereign weren't so damn arrogant in its adherence of environmental laws and good construction practice. I certainly hope the people who allowed this to happen, including the employees and contractors, are fired, fined and hung from the highest chairlift!

 

[rocket21]

I certainly hope the people who allowed this to happen, including the employees and contractors, are fired, fined and hung from the highest chairlift!

In defense of the company that installed the lift (Doppelmayr CTEC), the lift line was seeded in the fall of 2010 (prior to the opening of the lift) and was growing grass throughout 2011.

 

[skiguy]

As one of the "owners" who has zero interest in hiking there and feels not the least bit irrational (for the moment ....), may I suggest that you acquaint yourself with the real issues here? -- Taxpayers For Cannon.

Let's also be Informed that "Taxpayers for Cannon " is a site developed by the OP. In all due respect it is easy to site ones own references within a debate. Albeit the sources acquired are from publicly available material from the State of New Hampshire.

 

[David Metsky]

Moderator Note
And we were doing so well. Please, you all know to keep politics out of the debate. I deleted a few off topic comments.

 

[sardog1]

Let's also be Informed that "Taxpayers for Cannon " is a site developed by the OP. In all due respect it is easy to site ones own references within a debate. Albeit the sources acquired are from publicly available material from the State of New Hampshire.

I think you have conflated the OP and me. We're two different people and I'm only a fan of Taxpayers for Cannon's activities, not a member or participant.

 

[skiguy]

I think you have conflated the OP and me. We're two different people and I'm only a fan of Taxpayers for Cannon's activities, not a member or participant.

Not conflating at all. Just making folks aware that the OP of this thread is also involved with the site "Taxpayers for Cannon".

 

[sierra]

Im not to heavy into this, but I would like to make one point. What if you owned some land and decided to have a few large projects going, your at different levels of completetion for whatever reason and things are not anywhere where you want them to be, but your plans are not finished by any means. Along comes a group of people who try to dictate what and how you should function on your own land, thier main reason, they want to hike on your land, and wether they are serious or not, are using enviormental issues to drive thier point home. Seems to be outside of you causing severe issues onto surrounding lands you should have the right to treat your land the way you see fit, if your not paying the taxes and do not influence profit margins for the land who are you to dictate to the land owners what they should do?

Those who have been out west in mining country realize this so called mess pales in comparison to the devastation left in many beautifull areas in the mountains of CO. My point, just try and be objective, this is america land owners have rights they pay for thier land, if your backyards a dump and your nieghbor bangs on your door and says, "Hey get out there and clean your yard up it bothers me" what would your rreaction be?

I will conceed this point though, if the runoff, or trash or any negative by- product of this land encroaches surrounding land, then you have an issue.

The above is just my 2 cents, not slamming anyone here, you have a right to your opinions, but with all thats going on, if I had one flag to plant it wouldnt be there.

 

[David Metsky]

Seems to be outside of you causing severe issues onto surrounding lands you should have the right to treat your land the way you see fit, if your not paying the taxes and do not influence profit margins for the land who are you to dictate to the land owners what they should do?

All that you said is fine, but this is state land. The citizens of NH are the landowners and therefore have a right to inquire, complain, and protest the way their land is being managed.