Cannon Mountain - Environmental Damage, Hiking Prohibition, and SB217

[David Metsky]

Moderator Note
Please refrain from personal attacks on posters and limit your discussion points to what they have posted.

 

[rocket21]

The SB217 Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee hearing was held this morning.
The bill can be followed here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/results.aspx?txtbillnumber=sb217&txtsessionyear=2012
You can listen to the ~2 hr. 45 min. hearing here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bil...tion=&txtsessionyear=2012&txtbillnumber=sb217

Some items of note from testimony:
- Cannon Management admitted the Mittersill damage mitigation has not been sufficient and that more work needs to be done. All non-heavy equipment work will be completed by July. Any heavy equipment-required work will take place after August 1.
- Cannon Management supports hiking corridors on the ski area, but is opposed to winter and spring time foot use.
- Cannon Management may accept $1.5M to $2M from the Franconia Ski Club in exchange for building a snowmaking-equipped racing trail on Mittersill.
- Cannon Management is against a Request For Information for potential lease interest (the bill is for the RFI, but does not authorize an RFP or a lease).
- Cannon Management admitted that it is not "truly self funded," as it relies upon funds from Mt. Sunapee (~$500K/year) and the State (~$1.5M in FY11) to offset capital costs.

Also disclosed during the hearings was the fee increase approved recently that will raise fees at many state parks in New Hampshire (including Monadnock), which is expected to raise ~$388K. The Union Leader covered this a few days ago here: State parks fees increased.

 

[sierra]

mud season stay home,really?

"trashing the wilderness"? Really? And you're going to compare some erosion on a ski trail to the clear-cutting of 100,000s of acres of forest and the subsequent wildfires? I wouldn't put the passage of the Weeks Act in the same category as cleaning up Mittersill. Sorry, but that's a terrible analogy. And do we really have to turn everything into a conspiracy theory by making it a "corporation" against the average-joe "taxpayer"?



Oh geez... Methinks you have been listening to too many political speeches.

While we're all on our high horse here, let's also remember that we're also the first line of offense in destroying the mountains, etc... Let's all keep that in mind when watching cars drive through Franconia Notch to go hiking during mud season.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it is this sort of sanctimonious attitude that is pervasive in the hiking community that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Frankly, there are a lot more important things to worry about than the Mittersill erosion and how it affects our leisure-time recreation. I greatly enjoy hiking, skiing, and many other outdoor recreational activities, but boy can we work ourselves into a tizzy about stuff that only affects about .1% of the population.

Ive heard this a few times since Ive been on this board. You should not hike in the mountains during mud season. First off, do some people really adhere to this? I guess, I never even thought about it because I hike just about every week year round. While I will admit muddy trails suffer more, I would not stay home for a month or how ever long mud season last because it bothered me that much. Im curious to hear from one person that actually does stop hiking during mud season, I would find that curious for sure.

 

[peakbagger]

I am one person that limits my hiking in mud season. I am not a gridder and would prefer to do other things than sloshing around in mud pits. My subsitute is to go paddling or if I want to get out, I will go bushwhacking.

 

[erugs]

I think our poll maker has to come up with a new one soon on a new thread. Who hikes in the mud. Who walks to the side of mud. Who stays home. Who takes giant leaps. Who pole volts.

 

[sierra]

I am one person that limits my hiking in mud season. I am not a gridder and would prefer to do other things than sloshing around in mud pits. My subsitute is to go paddling or if I want to get out, I will go bushwhacking.

Well that makes sense to me you have another sport that you can focus on, I thought about kayaking but IM not a big water guy, I almost drowned once, but it does look fun.

 

[MichaelJ]

Ive heard this a few times since Ive been on this board. You should not hike in the mountains during mud season. First off, do some people really adhere to this?

Vermont does.
http://www.greenmountainclub.org/page.php?id=60

"The State of Vermont closes all trails on state land including those on Camel's Hump and Mount Mansfield from mid-April until Memorial Day weekend. Please do not hike in these fragile areas.
Also avoid: Stratton Mountain, Killington Peak, Lincoln Ridge (Mount Ellen to Appalachian Gap), Jay Peak."

 

[Jason Berard]

Vermont does.
http://www.greenmountainclub.org/page.php?id=60

"The State of Vermont closes all trails on state land including those on Camel's Hump and Mount Mansfield from mid-April until Memorial Day weekend. Please do not hike in these fragile areas.
Also avoid: Stratton Mountain, Killington Peak, Lincoln Ridge (Mount Ellen to Appalachian Gap), Jay Peak."

I love my State!

I can always find someplace to hike. It all depends on conditions. In a spring like '10, things were dried out really early, Last year, not so much.

 

[natron]

great post Andrew!

There is no outcry from this community over the NH timber harvest community resistance to accept basic guidelines for stream crossing and wetland damage controls with high elevation cuts over large expanses and multiple roads. Most members are exemplary stewards but a few have held out. Probably because most takes place in the far north and can't be seen from popular trails. I see one road and a few gullies, unfortunate but not the high drama of a conspiracy to destroy the environment.

The recent wind farm in this area made a brand new road on a ridge top with miles and miles of beautiful moss and high elevation vegetation furrowed off. This project did an incredible job with protecting wetlands from what I have observed,

RE: timber industry, I think most memebrs here including myself are a little in the dark regarding the industry, mainly due to out of sight out of mind.. I thought more rules and regulations would apply in concern of wetlands and high elevation cutting.... any ideas how we can become more informed/involved on this issue?

RE: windfarm, where? and how do we access this new rd. could make for a nice walk..

BTW: I rarely hike on muddy trails, I mainly miss mud season, I snowboard till june or july on mt.w., more rock hopping and snow sliding.. and I'd support closing muddy trails, erosion concerns should trump those concerns of recreational activity.. bradbury mt. 20 min from my house is a great place to mt.bike but they close the trails when wet and I applaud them for it..

 

[hikingmaineac]

I think our poll maker has to come up with a new one soon on a new thread. Who hikes in the mud. Who walks to the side of mud. Who stays home. Who takes giant leaps. Who pole volts.

I've found that in snowy winters, many of the shady trails and higher peaks have plenty of snow-shoeable snow through mid May.

 

[Lefty E]

yep peakbagger and others got it right not really that fun to hike in mud season, would just as soon get bit by bugs fishing the brooks of northern NH, canoeing or kayaking or getting firewood ready..

 

[Andrew]

I really don't intend to criticize the logging industry, even more so to my point that there is a lot of land north of the WMNF that seems to garner less regard with issues similar to Cannon that are being batted around in this thread. Much of this land is upper elevation, and in some ways even more environmentally sensitive due to high concentrations of endangered species.

The forest stewardship issues I eluded to I choose to be somewhat vague, but the reality is that NHDES and federal wetland permit procedures are nearly unbearable if you want to clean an existing ditch along an established roadway- Whereas if you file a permit for an intent to cut, the wetland requirements are laxed to the point of only a need to follow best management practices.

I worked for a logger at one time for a brief period, and fully support it's continued viability for the north country economy. That is one of the reasons I originally opposed the Phillips windfarm, since it was often mentioned that the Berlin biomass power generation project was in competition for limited capacity on the area electric transmission lines. The reason being that the biomass plant provided continued work for the existing infrastructure of the forest management/harvest community. Except for a few obvious outfits, most loggers care deeply about how the land and forests are managed for a continued bountiful resource, and are just as disturbed by recent liquidation harvests directed by corporate bosses with no vested interest.

We actually have a lot to thank of our north country loggers. If for one the crew described in the NHF&G story regarding the bear cub rescue story I posted on another thread. Or for the ideal habitat that has now aided the return of the lynx (tracks were documented by NHF&G in Success a couple of weeks ago). I even had a conversation a couple weeks ago with a logger who works for an infamous liquidator, who happens to be passionate about assisting law enforcement with ridding and convicting persons trashing and littering along a long bumpy road that many of us travel along on the west side of that long northern ridge.

Mittersill is a developed ski area. The mossy road was once a gravel road and put there for access to a top station that regrew due to no use and was a carpet of moss since nothing else would grow on a harsh packed gravel surface.

The windfarm area can be accessed by Dummer Pond Road off Rte 16. I don't believe there are any restrictions still in place on it's use since most heavy construction is done. The upper elevation road farther in probably has restricted access, but I have only traveled alongside sections on the snowmobile trails.

 

[peakbagger]

With regards to the windfarm up north . I expect good views can be had from the Signal Mountain tower in Millsfield. I havent visited there yet but J&J has.

 

[rocket21]

Mittersill is a developed ski area. The mossy road was once a gravel road and put there for access to a top station that regrew due to no use and was a carpet of moss since nothing else would grow on a harsh packed gravel surface.

I respectfully disagree with part of this statement. Machinery ripped up trails outside of the gravel road. Also, machinery continued to go up the historic (1932-33) hand-built Taft Trail above the chairlift.

It should also be noted that the Mittersill chairlift has not operated a single day this season. With that, the entire area has not only been closed to hikers, but also technically closed to any backcountry skiers as well (and there has been skiable terrain in there, where trails hadn't been ripped up by machinery). Such "closures" are selectively enforced.

 

[Andrew]

Rocket, you are right. As I typed I realized I probably did not have enough first-hand knowledge of exactly what went on at the site. Regardless, it was developed as a ski area at one time and it's potential destiny was to be reopened again by someone. Very few recreational development projects can repeat the hand work accomplished by the CCC, machines aid our day. It would be better if you or I marched from our residences to trailheads ala Alden Partridge style, but we live in a modern age.

Rain on all holiday weekends in a summer can devestate campground revenues. But that does not mean rec managers should never look to improve or expand camping experiences for the public benefit. Investment often has a gamble.

 

[andrewb]

My opinion on the Mittersill area is that it has been to-date mismanaged by Cannon and we were better off when it was abandoned ... before they got their greedy little paws on it. I have read most but not all of the posts in this thread so please accept my apology if I have missed something that was in fact already said -- BUT I would have expected to see a ton of people upset over A) the damage to the area and B) the closure. From my perspective, it seems many people A) expect progress to have a cost and B) the closure doesn't matter since Cannon is higher and Mittersill doesn't even "count" for the list.

I think that's the wrong attitude to have. All mountaintops are a pilgrimage for some people and if it's on public land they should be protected equally from damage and access be allowed - moneymaking ventures should be secondary. This mountain is frustrating because one cannot legally visit the top - period. Not even by bushwhacking, because you would need to turn back near the top because their trail is off limits. I can only hope they address the erosion issues first thing this summer and then either open a route to the top or lift the ban for those that wish to BW this still worthy peak!

 

[RoySwkr]

I would have expected to see a ton of people upset over A) the damage to the area and B) the closure.

I used to work construction and the prevailing attitude seemed to be to build it as fast as possible and clean it up later, even though that might take longer that working more carefully. Often the cleanup doesn't occur without outside pressure. The NH DES has some very stringent rules and very few staff to enforce them, it's easier for them to harass a highway crew for replacing a collapsed 15" culvert without a permit than it is to go back in the woods to check logging operations. It would be interesting to know whether the original Mittersill contractor will be required to fix the damage at no charge or whether the delay until August is for the state to find additional funds.

Sure I'm annoyed whenever public land is closed to the public, but "Mt Mittersill" is really an unnamed bump in an area with plenty of other public land. I'm more unhappy about the Quabbin reservoir in MA which allows motorboats but not canoes or hiking, or even the closed watershed in Concord NH.

 

[rocket21]

It would be interesting to know whether the original Mittersill contractor will be required to fix the damage at no charge or whether the delay until August is for the state to find additional funds.

I don't think the contractor (Doppelmayr) is to blame. I base this off a) other Doppelmayr installations, which have never looked like this, b) the liftline was seeded when the lift was installed in Fall 2010 and was growing grass in Spring 2011, c) motorized use occured above the lift installation area, d) motorized use continued well into Fall 2011, long after Doppelmayr had completed the install (January 1, 2011 opening).

Sure I'm annoyed whenever public land is closed to the public, but "Mt Mittersill" is really an unnamed bump in an area with plenty of other public land.

If the ski trail closing is taken at face value - ie you are unable to walk on any of the ski trails in between the signs - then 730 acres of Franconia Notch State Park are closed to all foot use year round. That's a lot more than just Mittersill/Mt. Mittersill/Mt. Jackson, depending upon what one wants to call that bump.

 

[skiguy]

If the ski trail closing is taken at face value - ie you are unable to walk on any of the ski trails in between the signs - then 730 acres of Franconia Notch State Park are closed to all foot use year round. That's a lot more than just Mittersill/Mt. Mittersill/Mt. Jackson, depending upon what one wants to call that bump.

Where is the indication that this is a permanant closure? Is it possible that the closure is temporary until the damaged is repaired. Is it also possible that the closure is in order to stop any increased damage by foot travel? Also with the latest hearing has Cannon Mountain not agreed to further discussion going forward on foot travel?

 

[DougPaul]

If the ski trail closing is taken at face value - ie you are unable to walk on any of the ski trails in between the signs - then 730 acres of Franconia Notch State Park are closed to all foot use year round. That's a lot more than just Mittersill/Mt. Mittersill/Mt. Jackson, depending upon what one wants to call that bump.

There is something unique about Mt Mittersill--the '30's era Tucker Brook Tr (ungroomed backcountry ski trail) leaves from the top of Mt Mittersill. The closure looks like it may block top access.

See http://www.telemarktips.com/GoodmanFeature.html, http://www.outdoors.org/publications/outdoors/web/backcountry-gem.cfm, and/or http://www.amazon.com/Best-Backcountry-Skiing-Northeast-Classic/dp/1934028142

Doug