Good kayak for overnight trips

[DSettahr]

I did a search, but most of the kayak information was about good kayaks for day trips, not overnights.

I'm thinking about investing in a kayak, but I don't want to spend a huge amount of money on one. I'm looking for a good beginners kayak that would be suitable for overnight trips on ponds, lakes, and rivers in the Adirondacks. Most of the kayaks I've found that specifically state they are for multi-day trips are way out of my price range, and are pretty lengthy and look to be sea kayaks.

Would a 12 foot kayak, with a maximum load of 325 to 350 pounds work for trips of up to 5 days or so in length? I can keep the total load in the kayak to no more than 250 pounds (including both my own personal weight and the weight of my gear).

Here's the two models I'm looking at:

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/4591...6&cat4=1103&shop_method=pp&feat=118-sub1&np=Y

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/6405...&cat4=1103&shop_method=pp&feat=1103-sub2&np=Y

Have people used kayaks similar to the ones above on overnight trips, and how did it work for you?

Suggestions about other models are also welcome.

 

[Hampshire]

I would highly recommend a sit on top kayak. My wife, son, and I do quite at bit of overnights. You will be amazed at how much these things can carry. In fact we just sold my wife's "sit in" for a sit on top.

Here is what I've been using the last few years.

http://www.heritagekayaks.com/redfish12.htm

 

[peakbagger]

Unfortunately, the laws of physics are against you. The length and beam of the boat is directly related to the amount of effort required to paddle the boat. If you have a short boat with a wide beam, you are going to be limited on the distance you can comfortably travel each day . The short wide combination is also going to tend be a handfull in rougher water frequently encountered on northern lakes in the afternoon. Inevitably if you buy a short boat, especially for overnights, if you dont quit out of fustration, you will end up buying a longer boat (that resembles a sea kayak) at a later date.

Keep an eye on the hull weigths, some of the HDPE boats are quite heavy. The trade off is that if you go for a lighter boat made out of fiberglass or kevlar, they tend to be a lot more fragile.

 

[Stan]

I once calculated that I would need several kayaks to best accomodate the different types of trips that I enjoy. Therefore, some tradeoff or compromise in characteristics, dimensions, hatches etc. will be necessary so you will have to define your priorities.

Be careful in that definition ... you may wind up with a boat that serves all your purposes but none well. If paddle camping is a big part of your future, I would place a high priority on those features which assures your enjoyment.

I've seen people paddle camping on the most rudimentary of watercraft so the suggestion of a sit on top boat is not out of the question. The drawbacks are 1) your gear is unprotected from the weather (including sunlight and heat) or a capsize, 2) the higher center of gravity with the load makes it less stable, 3) it will be more tiring and uncomfortable over a long trip than a well dimensioned boat. It is more economical and if you are a minimalist camper you may get by ... avoid long treks across exposed waters.

I relate paddle camping akin to car camping in which I carry an abundant, if not decadent, selection of food, beverages and kitchenware ... the sort of things you can't indulge yourself with on a backpack ... though I am known to carry a suitable wine and cast iron pan even then ... the implications of this is that I like to stow as much as possible below deck in watertight compartments. I put heavier more "delicate" items below, lighter and more weather independent items on deck

I also like a long boat narrow of beam as they are faster and less work paddling over long distances. Lightweight paddles also help in that regard. Be careful of the length to beam ratio, without other design characteristics it can tend to be less stable.

An 8-12 foot boat on flatwater daytrips is certainly suitable. I'd consider 12' inadequate for 5 day paddle camping, 14-16' being more suitable for me. The larger boat will certainly increase your capacity for time away as well as comfortable paddling over long distances, the latter point being of greater concern as you age. Consider also, how much portaging you might be doing ... a smaller lighter boat might be preferable in that regard.

Manufacturers vary considerably in the comfort of their seating, too, and that is important when you're spending a lot of time on your butt in the boat.

Finally, I would suggest renting a few different boats before you invest in your own. There is no better substitute for that experience to help you decide what's important to you. Actually, I rented for several years until the inconvenience and economics made it less rational. Once I decided, cost became secondary as I was quite sure of what I wanted and had no doubt as to how well it would serve me.

 

[cbcbd]

Any kayak can work for most anything. Paddling skill, general fitness, and mindframe have a lot to do with what you can do with a kayak. I've seen kayaks get rolled where people have claimed that "you can't roll that kayak".

The ones you listed should do you just fine. With every kayak there will be a trade-off but I won't keep you away from kayaking by suggesting you jump right away to a $800+ boat. You might have missed some by now, but demoing kayaks help. Or renting one just to get a feel. But otherwise just load it up and go!

My only advice is to get a used boat for your first boat. Plenty of rental Pungos and the like being sold off each season. "Plastic" boats really don't age that much in a year or two. A used boat might look a little more scratched up and be a little sandier but it'll save you money now and later in case you decide to take your kayaking further and want to purchase a more expensive boat.

Where I would spend money right now would be a nice lightweight paddle. They can get very expensive ($200+ for a composite) but it will make the most difference with effort and stamina on a long paddle.

Have fun

Edit:
Rereading some posts, like Stan's, I'll have to agree that maybe a better all-around boat for multiday trips would be something a little longer, a 14'er perhaps:
http://www.perceptionkayaks.com/product/index/products/touring/carolina/carolina_14/

But again, try some out and then you'll know which one feels best for you

 

[coldfeet]

I have a Pungo 120 and I like it for those small streams rivers. My friend paddled it last year over open water and kept up with the group but he's a bull! My nephew used it a few summers ago when I went to Little tupper lake with JayH and it was great because I let him carry the cast iron skillet and heavier objects

If i had to do it again I'd probably buy a 14ft boat with 2 hatches (pungo 120 has only 1) but there is plenty of room in front of the foot pegs to store gear. I'd probably rent a boat for a day trip and see if that was good for a longer trip. I bought a used plastic 17ft touring boat for $750 a few years ago. Check out paddling.net classified for some sales. hope this video works..it's funny

http://www.kayakquixotica.com/2009/11/25/i-will-take-my-pungo/

 

[sardog1]

Ahem. Having sold way, way more Pungos (and lesser craft) than my karma can bear in the afterlife, I must ask this question:

Why choose a kayak for the trips you describe?

The chief advantages of a kayak are that you're down in the water (i.e., more stable), out of the blow-thee-hither-and-yon wind, and when the boat is long enough and narrow enough, it tracks straighter and goes faster than a canoe. But you give up many of the paddling advantages of a kayak when you shrink the length to the Pungo range. Shorter length means more beam to achieve the same buoyancy and to accommodate the folks who treasure initial stability above other considerations.

A canoe will take less time and effort to load and unload, and it will be relatively easy to portage compared with any kayak.

Another way of putting this: The Inuit paddled kayaks, while the Penobscots and their neighbors paddled canoes. Each had their reasons, related to the waters they traversed and the weather they encountered on the way.

And if you disregard all the above, fer Gawd's sake stay away from the 14 foot Pungo, unless you're regularly paddling Champlain and the like. It has its place, but it certainly isn't on streams and Adirondack ponds. The 12 is a better choice for your needs.

 

[DSettahr]

Thanks for all the responses! Unfortunately, I can't give out reputation to everyone right away... but they've all been very helpful.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

You can certainly do overnight trips in just about any kayak; it's just a matter of how much gear you want to bring and the weight capacity of the boat. Either of the 12-footers that you linked to will handle the job. If there is no aft bulkhead, simply use dry bags for your gear - you'll find it's easier to use multiple small bags versus one large one. Whether to buy a sit-on-top or a sit-in kayak is also a personal decision. I don't particularly like to paddle sit-on-top boats, because I prefer to stay a bit dryer and like to be able to brace my knees or thighs on something (the underside of the deck/cockpit)when the water kicks up.

Edit: Canoes are the traditional watercraft for Adirondack travel (with apologies to guide boat owners), but kayaks will do fine if you don't have to do any carries, or if the portages are on good, relatively flat trails that you can use a wheeled cart on. I just did a trip from Old Forge to Saranac Lake in my 17-foot fiberglass sea kayak. I used a cart for all of the carries, and the only problem I encountered in over 9 miles of portages was on the Raquette Falls trail that features several stairs and cart-eating rocks along the way. Paddles? We sell a really cheap paddle for $35 that is poorly designed and heavy - don't buy one of those Pelican paddles. But you don't have to spend $200 or more for a decent paddle. I bought a Bending Branches Whisper paddle that costs about $60, is reasonably light, and does a fine job. I use it as a spare, or when I'm paddling in rocky waters where I don't want to risk my Werner FG paddle. Research is fun, isn't it?!

 

[Jay H]

From being a backpacker and having a 14' sea/touring kayak, I've found that kayaks are very spacious. I can carry a lot more gear in my 14' kayak than in a 4000ci backpack. A 12' rec kayak or so will be shorter and probably wider probably has one bulkhead to store stuff in. Since you probably have backpacking gear as I've seen your backpacking trip reports, it might just come down to whether you have to pack water or can you filter. I assume you're not crossing the atlantic in a 12' rec kayak so you probably have access to fresh water.

Another thing to consider is that the kayak space is a little different than a backpack in that you have pointy ends to stuff things in and these pointy ends don't bend and flex like a backpack. Sometimes on things you can get away with getting wet, you can not use a stuff sack and just stuff soft things in the end... So the packing is different and perhaps more important as loading the kayak a certain way can affect handling in rough water to an extent.

Jay

 

[chinooktrail]

I have an older version of the Perception Carolina that Doug suggested. I have to say I love this boat!

A year or so after getting it I added the Seal Line Smart Track rudder to it, and have been very happy I did. I like this one better than most rudder systems, because you only move your foot, like a gas pedal, not your whole leg to adjust the rudder. This keeps me more stable in the boat. At least, I like to think so!

This boat has served me well in many situations, including lots (but never enough!) kayak camping. I can take it on the Saco, in lakes, streams, bogs, and have had it on the ocean.

It certainly isn't luxury camping from it, like it would be in a canoe, but I just use all my backpacking gear. Packing it is something learned over time. Small gear in first to use the most space, but leave enough space to stuff the tent in and then load gear on either side of that etc... I suggest a practice session or two at home before finding out at the put in that something is too long to fit into one of the ports.

Personally, I think kayaking is one of the most natural things in the world to do, people just seem to take to it quickly. Where canoeing is a very learned skill. For many, it is not a natural ability, and there are a few people I would never even think of getting into a canoe with again!

I also agree that getting a used boat first is a great idea. These things can get pretty addicting! Fortunately for me, I think the Carolina is about the most versatile boat I could get, and works well for me. That said, it is the 3rd or 4th kayak I have bought.

Good luck!