Of shrinks and peakbaggers

[Meo]

This subject has already been covered a bit here, but not completely, so I'll ask differently. Most of you here are peakbaggers of some sort, following lists or not. I am too I'm writing an article in an outdoor mag about peakbagging, from a different angle than those I read yet. This is gonna be titled "Confessions of a peakbagger", to give you an idea. I'd like to know:

1- WHY are you peakbagging? What feelings do you entertain vs lists?

A frequent answer is "to discover peaks I wouldn't climb otherwise". That's an interesting answer, but is there anything else? Would you consider it a kind of personal achievement?

2- How obsessive are you about lists?

I, myself, went in a sort of frenzy when I had "only" 20 peaks to go in the NE115 list. All my weekends were booked. Am I alone? Did it cause you problems with your relatives, who perhaps didn't understand you? Are we freaks? If you prefer to answer me in private, no prob.

3- Is someone on this board a professionnal psychologist?

I'd like to contact you via email for a short interview on this topic (do stamp collectors and peakbaggers have something in common, from a psychological point of view? When does it becomes an obsessive-compulsive behavior? etc.).

Thanks! Maybe I'll quote some interesting lines

 

[Jasonst]

I have to admit that with me, the thrill is in the chase. Having just finished the NH 48 4k's I must admit that I feel like the dog that was chasing the milk truck - once he caught it he wasn't sure what to do with it I guess the thrill now is to go for other lists and complete those, but from where I live and my family situation, it may be difficult to complete those other lists in the time it took to do the NH 48. I suppose I can continue to explore, hiking trails I haven't done before, hiking different mountains in different seasons....

 

[Jasonst]

postr - is that skull still haunting you?

 

[Jasonst]

i'll be headin back up there someday [/B]

"Headin" back up That's a good one...

 

[mavs00]

Great questions

Sounds like a real interesting article. Make sure you let us know where we can read the finished product. Here are my contributions.

1) The list (mine currently is ADK 46) keeps me focused.When it comes to planning, its easy. "I ain't done that one, or that one, so lets go" without a list to keep me on track, I'd just stare out at all of them and drool like an idiot. They all look climbable. I don't even know if finishing is the important thing, as long as you're "out there" trying.

As far as personal achievment if I do finish. You Darn Right . My 46r number will likely be in the upper 5000's (or more), but after 5 years, thousands of commute miles, hundreds of trail miles, over 100'000 feet of climbing and thousands of dollars to support it, I'll feel like numero uno (in my mind) for a little bit, you can bet.

2) Obsessed/Addicted, well, it ain't drugs or booze.............but it's close . Seriously, after this list, I'll probably relax on any formal list for awhile and perhaps redo a few peaks that I particularly enjoyed or weather wasn't good. Explore other areas and so on. Then again, I'll already be half-way towards the hundred highest, hmmmm..........................

3) No, but if there is, please forward my e-mail to them

 

[Peakbagr]

Meo,

Great thread. Peakbagging, not in the slightest. Its PEAKBAGR to you !

When I was going over the first round of the 46, I was a fanatic about planning dates, peaks, partners, weather, etc.
Same thing for the winter peaks, as well as the Catskills and NE111.

I had a tremendous letdown when I finished the 46. Lots of reflection and thought. I realized that I really liked doing this sport for many of the reasons we all do. I also came to the conclusion that since I'm a goal-oriented person in my "real" life and professional life, why would it be any different in the mountains?

Peakbagr-ing for me is a number of things:
1. It does keep up the motivation when heat, humidity, weather, bugs, deep snow cold, long drives, and long hikes, early starts, cold tents and a variety of things makes your motivation have a letdown.
2. Lists keep you focused on number of rounds, seasons, states, and by their nature, point you to being able to see and experience places and conditions that you might not otherwise experience if you only climbed nice trails to open summits on sunny, low humidity days.
3. For those of a certain bent, lists are fun to chase, and interesting to achieve. I might never have climbed some of the ADK100 peaks that are known nightmares of blowdown and cliffs were it not for a goal. And guess what? From my standpoint, if I can use that goal to psyche myself for what I know will be a crap peak, good ! I do know that I'm always happy I went and if the goal of climbing them all was my version of assisting my motivation, then it works for me.

My family has been very understanding. My spouse is a saint. When only a handful of us were doing the winter 46, we'd start watching the weather forecasts on Tuesday and Wednesday for the coming weekend, gauging which day would be best. If you missed a trip, it might be a winter or two to get up another party for the more challenging peaks. For years, she avoided making any sort of Friday thru Sunday plans during the winter season.
When I finished the NE111, I had to take stock. My kids were getting to the age when Dad needed to be there on the weekends, and decided the winter NE111 would be just too much sacrifice for the family. When I look back on that turning point, I realize all the reflection time I had on the trails and car rides did help me to make the right decision.
Right now I'm making up for some lost time for the long sabbatical I took from hiking to help raise my kids. Chasing the ADK100 is a lot of fun, especially trying to keep up with younger Peak_bgr and Peakbagger from VFTT.

 

[^MtnMike^]

I just started keeping track, but the more I 'bag' the more I get psyched up.

Maybe I'm slowly going crazy...

^MtnMike^

 

[KZKlimber]

It's a team sport.....

In my case, peakbagging became a "team sport". I started to hike with 2 other guys who were doing the ADK 46, they were about 10 peaks ahead of me when we started. We would hike peaks that each of us needed together and I started hiking the others solo until I "caught up" to them.

The "list" provided a focus and forced us to take on distances we never would have tackled voluntarily. The driver was not letting your teammates down.

This is a valuable lesson since we intend to start climbing higher altitude peaks out west after we finish the 46.

By the way, I ice climb with the same passion and enthusiasm without any "list". Again it is about not letting your climbing partner down.

KZ

 

[MrOysterhead]

1 - I'm not, at least not in the list chasing way that you all are.

2 - Only the lists I create for myself (not eally looking into the 46er, 35er, 111er, etc lists)

I'm not really into climbing to chases the established lists. I climb for three reasons. One, if I don't, I get really punchy - my friends can tell when I haven't been out in a few weeks. Two - I love the views. How good the views are determines a lot of times whether a peak is worth climbing. It dosen't have to be high, it just has to have views. This is the reason peaks like Cliff, Allen, and Coochie will probably never be done - they don't have any real breath taking views that I know of. The last is the route - the harder I have to work or the more dicy and fun the route is - the better. Bushwhacks are neither dicy nor fun. So trailless climbs are out unless there is a good slide or amazing views. But thats just me

peace
Oysterhead

 

[SherpaKroto]

1- WHY are you peakbagging? What feelings do you entertain vs lists?
I can't honestly tell you why. Part of it is that I love the outdoors. I love the views. I love seeing something new. I enjoy having a goal, and looking back as I progress on it. It might be the fear of missing out on something I don't really know. I do know that after a few weeks of not hiking, I'm climbing the walls.

2- How obsessive are you about lists?
Obsessive, but not exclusive. I am actively working on my 46er, 111er, winter NH48 and winter NE67. But - I still love to go out and hike anywhere. I just returned from a BSP trip where I was doing no peakbagging, and will do a Long Trail backpack. I will admit that when planning my year (I'm bad) I start with my peakbagging goals and fill in the rest as I go. My obsession is with planning: I like to work out the details beforehand on most trips. I sometimes thrive on trying to solve the rough details in making a trip happen (for me, this is BSP and the ADK's)

3- Is someone on this board a professionnal psychologist?
Not me, but I need one

Overall though, for me, it's all about hiking something new. I really get a charge out of trying to see what is around the bend or over the hill. It's also about then being able to go back to the places I enjoyed most. Just call me obsessive hiker...

 

[Blue]

1- WHY are you peakbagging? What feelings do you entertain vs lists?

I have been peakbagging for five years. I see the lists as a goal, a way to push myself further. I never thought I would hike any 4Ks in winter and now I'm working on the list. I never thought of attempting a 1 day Presi traverse, and I'll be attempting it Sunday. Pushing beyond the limits (physical and psychological)you think you have can be very, very rewarding.

2- How obsessive are you about lists?

I never considered myself obsessed because I've hiked several 4Ks at least 5 times and if conditions were poor or my hiking partner had problems on the hike, I never -had- to summit. I knew that the mountains would still be there on another day. I am obsessed with planning a hike - I will read everything I can about a trail, study various maps and check the weather at least 100 times prior to the hike (the Obs, NOAA, intellicast, everything).

3- Is someone on this board a professionnal psychologist?

I'm not a professional psychologist, but I do know of one on the board. I think that he or she would tell you that hiking would become OCD when you can't enjoy anything other than hiking and start giving up lots of time with non hiker family and friends to pursue lists. I don't think I know any hiker in that category.

 

[Mark A.]

I topped my first NH 4,000 in 1966. Over the years I’ve gotten through half the list or so. Obviously, I’m not exactly obsessed by this. But I think it’s fair to say that this summer I have become a peakbagger. My daughter is off to med school in fall, 2005, but has a situation between now and then that lets her head to the mountains on most weekends. We’ve spent a lot of time, both together and separately, in the outdoors, and we agree finishing off our lists together would be perfect. We have a lot of overlap, but both of us have done mountains the other hasn’t, so we’re checking lists and working things out. (We’re both cheerful reclimbers.) I must admit, though, that the real enjoyment for me is not bagging the peaks, it’s bagging the peaks with her.

 

[Peter Miller]

As it so happens I am a professional psychologist (retired), also a veteran hiker (43 years) but not a peakbagger (nor a peakbgr either).

My opinions may not be worth even two cents. I have expressed them on VFTT and AMC message boards now and then. They beget hostile responses.

It's not that I lack compulsivity. I hike every day of the year, usually at least 6 miles. The day doesn't feel right if I haven't spent a few hours communing with trees. I chose to live in proximity to mountains a long time ago, taking a less prestigious and high paying job to do so. Building hiking trails is one of my avocations.

I admire the tenacity and stamina of peakbaggers. But on the whole the peakbagging mindset turns me off. Some of my issues:

(1) Treating mountains as "things". Mountains have personality, they have spirit, and each visit to a mountain is an opportunity for communion. Mountains should be approached with reverence. To regard mountains as items to be checked off on a list, or bagged or tagged, is an insult to the mountain's spirit.

(2) Braggadocio. It shows time and again in the postings on this and other message boards, explicitly or implicitly, and it has no place in nature, IMHO. The proper mindset on mountains is humility, for we are small and insignificant in the vastness of nature and the forces that govern it. This cock-strutting has caused me to stay away from message boards for years at a time.

(3) Unacceptable risk taking. I believe the peakbagging mindset contributed to some of the deaths that occurred in the Whites this past winter. No man is an island, we all are part of the human web, and to die in quest of a check mark on a list is to leave surviving loved ones feeling abandoned. It was these recent deaths that brought me back to this message board.

(4) Balance of priorities. Peakbagging seems so me-oriented. What about the needs of significant others? It seems like a sport best suited for the childless and unattached.

Please understand that these are just my opinions. Like I said, they may not even be worth a wooden nickel.

 

[Jim lombard]

Guess I'm not a real Peakbagger...my first in NH was in 1985 and I'm at #47 of the 4K list. I've done several peaks 6 or 7 times in different seasons because they're favorites.

I agree that these mountains have a spirit and mindlessly racing up and down them in the pursuit of a list or a record is not for me. But hey I'll just step off the trail for a minute while you blaze past, it does seem like you guys are having fun!

 

[maineguy]

I agree (mostly) with Peter. Seriously, a very thought provoking post. Sure to ruffle the strutting feathers.

 

[Puma concolor]

Great questions, Meo, but I have no profound answers. It's all pretty simple if you ask me .... I love the mountains, the sense of freedom within them and the feeling of accomplishment upon completing a list. I can vividly remember the exact moment I became a Forty-Sixer on Allen ... I ran to the summit register when I saw it ... did the same on Rocky when I finished the 3500 club. I was more low key on Owl's Head when I finished the 111 but it's still imprinted on my mind. Peakbagging and lists just help give direction to where I'm going to go next and I'll probably never give it up. Peakbagging is a sport that I've gotten good at.

Me-oriented, Peter? Well, yeah!!! Who wants to go through a life with no interests or hobbies? I'm sure you've treated plenty of clients who didn't know how to take time out for themselves. In a way, it's like eating or sleeping ... if I do neither, I'm not much good to my family or job. The mountains are like food for the soul and rest for the spirit. That'll be $75 please.

 

[peak_bgr]

Because it's there. It's that simple for me. I like the thrill of finding out whats on top of that peak thats rarely if ever visited. Are there views, is it wooded. Also, what am I going to see along the way. There's usually no trail, so seeing something that no one may have seen before or trekking on land never before trampled is a pretty cool thing.

I just look at a map and say, "I'm going to climb that peak today". The peak may have an elevation of 700' or 5000'. There all beautiful to me. Just because it's only at 700' doesn't make it any less a mountain.

 

[bigmoose]

Ah, VFTT's top writer is at it again! As I near the completion of my 4th list I tell myself, that's it, no more. (Same as I did the last three times.) I'm no psychologist, but a little self-analysis has shed some life on this subject. It took me until my mid-fifties to realize peakbagging is only the latest in a long string of compulsions. What's driven me all along -- if I find something I enjoy, I have to do it ALL THE TIME. Without going into great detail, many of the ALL THE TIME compulsions were destructive and/or injurious. When I started out climbing in 1994, at age 47, I was quickly hooked and by 1996 had finished my first list, the NH 4's. I'm still at it, and make no apologies, because this compulsion beats the hell out of the ones from my younger days. For me, the key is KNOWING it's a compusion, albeit a somewhat benign one. Yes, it's self-centered, yes it's a me-first thing, and ,yes, my wife and kids have been neglected on occasion. But, all things considered, peakbagging is a great game, a healthy pursuit, and a key component in my quality of life.
Meo...once you pull this research together...put it out en anglais s'il vous plait so we mono-linguists can check it out!
JT

 

[stoopid]

Originally posted by Meo 1- WHY are you peakbagging? What feelings do you entertain vs lists?

I like the challenge (each mountain offers its own challenges, even if it's just the long hike to get to its base/col (like Blake in the daks)).

2- How obsessive are you about lists?

The 'list' isn't as important as the accomplishment of having completed what I promised to myself I'd finish. I even set a year's-end goal for myself so I can't procrastinate. Once I'm done I'll liekly go back to some of my favorite spots, which I wouldn't have had I not completed all 46 and had a frame of reference.

3- Is someone on this board a professionnal psychologist?

No, but I'm suspecting I could use one! lol

 

[Rik]

I peakbag! Guilty. I love to climb mountains and this is a way I organize where I will go next. I have repeated many mountains because I like to hike but I also see it as similiar to a coin or stamp collection and am happy when I climb one I haven't climbed before. I don't put any time frames on the lists and just chip away at them over time. I always have multiple lists going so many to choose from depending on who I am going with, when, conditions , etc,... I think some of the issues raised by Peter don't necessarily go along with peakbagging unless you let them. If you make family less of a priority it doesn't matter whether you are hiking the ADK100 or a peak you have climbed 10 times this is a choice you are making. I also think the same is true of safety when out there. If you use good judgement in regards to turning around or cancelling a trip due to conditions it doesn't matter if that is your first hike or a "list hike".