Q on bears

[rup]

Looking for new areas in the ADKs to hike / camp: eg, Sewards, etc. How are the bears out there??? Most bear activity recorded here focuses on Marcy Dam and Flowed Lands backcounty campgrounds - in which the bears seem to have complete control.

What about other areas in the hi peaks?????

 

[Rick]

Here's my thought on the issue, others might disagree, though....
Most other areas of the high peaks do not have the problems associated with them, nor the nuisance bears as do the 2 spots you mentioned - Most of it is due (IMMHO) to the fact that most other areas that one can camp are not as easily accessible and tend to not attract folks whose higher impact style of camping lends itself to bear (and other) animal problems on a recurring continual basis.

While I always bearbag my food, I have never had a problem in the Sewards/Duck Hole/Cold River area, despite being back there 25-30 times over the years. The southern ADKs have never presented a problem either.

I do wonder, though, with the bear canister regulation in effect, if bears will begin to migrate to other areas seeking more easily obtained food.

 

[TCD]

I agree with Rick. I don't think you'll have any problems. I've camped at Duck Hole and nearby several times, with hung bags, and never had a bear problem. Similar in Dix Wilderness, never a problem.

In my opinion, the bear problem in the Marcy Dam/Flowed Lands corridor is the result of inadequate education and lax enforcement of good common sense practices like bear bag hangs. Now, a problem has been created because the bears are trained to look for camper food. I don't think the bear canister reg is going to solve any problems. (It's just going to be a damn asinine inconvenience for the majority of us, who are camped nowhere near Marcy Dam, never had a probnlem with bears, and don't need a damn stupid canister banging around on our backs.) Canisters won't solve the problem, because after an initial flurry of attention, we will go right back to no education and lax and selective enforcement, which are the real root causes. This is due to inadequate resource allocation from Albany. Again, someone in an office will be able to say they "did something about the bear problem" by passing a new reg; but it will not be enforced in the long term.

TCD

 

[Peaks]

Looking for new areas in the ADKs to hike / camp: eg, Sewards, etc. How are the bears out there??? Most bear activity recorded here focuses on Marcy Dam and Flowed Lands backcounty campgrounds - in which the bears seem to have complete control.

What about other areas in the hi peaks?????

From the limited backpacking I have done in the ADK's, bears are only a problem at the popular sites (Marcy Dam, Lake Coldin/Flowed Lands, JBL). Elsewhere, I have not had a problem. (knock on wood).

IMHO, bears know where to go to find food. Because other areas are not used nearly as much, they don't frequent there looking for food.

 

[woodstrider]

Bears

I agree with most all of these postings. Avoid the known high risk areas and you should not have a problem

Marcy Dam
Flowed Lands (lean-to sites especially)
Colden Lake
All lean-to sites, in general- to avoid not only bears but other pesky critters like beer swilling campers.

There are many great sections of trail to explore on the Northville/Placid trail. I've never had a problem there. And there are lakes(!).

 

[dougb]

The 'Adirondack Atlas' has a map showing bear recorded bear incidents. As noted, they're primarily in the area running from the Loj to Colden area.

Of course, it could have something to do with the fact that there are caretakers living in Colden & the loj (i.e. someone to do the recording).

 

[snowshoe]

I would not call it a bear problem. It is more like a people problem. If people were smart and hung their food the problems would not be bad. All it takes is that one carless person and for the next year the bear always comes back to that area for food. Even if eveyone else does the right thing.

 

[rup]

Thanks for your comments. I wondered about the Sewards as many trip reports describe the 'base camp' as very populated. That sounded like a potential bear draw.

 

[masshysteria]

While the Ward Brook and Blueberry LT's are the central staging areas for the Sewards, they don't get anywhere near the traffic that Marcy Dam and L.Colden do. I think the people who do venture into the Sewards are more bear conscious and take the appropriate cautions, thereby minimizing the "bear problem".

 

[rup]

One last Q on bear canister policy. Are they now required on all overnights in the ADK, or only at the obvious 'problem' spots??

I assume day hikes, while they usually include food, are exempt.

 

[bubba]

rup - not manditory YET. Advisory in effect to be aware and take precautions to prevent bears from foraging your loot.

 

[oldfogie]

I tend to disagree. Hanging a bearbag in the trees just doesn't work anymore. The bears have figured out how to defeat the system. Therefore NO amount of education is going to correct the problem in the Marcy Dam ---> Flowed Lands corridor. Canisters are the ONLY option. All new generation bears will find the areas fruitless and the old-timers will begin to forget, and in a few years there will be no more problem. A canister regulation should have been in effect years ago.

 

[bubba]

A canister regulation should have been in effect years ago.

Actually, I think that the DEC and ADK should have placed bear-tight storage vaults in the high-use area years ago. The bears wouldn't have trained themselves and the public would have been more aware of the problem because there was a solution right in front of them. What other pro-active option did they have that they neglected to take? (cables were obviously not an answer...)

 

[woodstrider]

Bear and your Food

I believe that two of the reasons that bear proof "vaults" were not placed in areas like Marcy Dam in the Adirondacks are

1) these easy answers are often abused. People are not being trained to inprove their back country skills. OK, so it may not make much of a difference in the Adirondacks- but sloppy backcountry skills can contribute to a lethal encounter in Yellowstone. Both people as well as bears need education.
2) the presence of these man-made contraptions are counter to the Master Plan for the area- which dicatates less permanent man-made structures so as to be conforming to the definition of wilderness.

I don't get places like Marcy Dam anyway. I mean- I to go out to the wilderness to experience the wilderness and not to be cheek to jowl with people - again. Also as a frequent solo backpacker and as a women, I do like to "tuck" myself away- for safety. But I suppose that bundling the campers together in concentrated areas makes it easier for the rangers.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I believe that two of the reasons that bear proof "vaults" were not placed in areas like Marcy Dam in the Adirondacks ...

Let me add another reason. It is not only at Marcy Dam and Lake Colden, but in the entire corridor from Johns Brook to the Flowed Lands. There scores of camping areas along the way. Should the state have installed 20-30 of them?

They are ugly things. Here is one I saw at Whitney a few weeks ago.

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/whit1.jpg

These were installed in campgrounds with numbered sites, not in an area where camping at large is allowed. In those areas on Whitney, canisters are required.

 

[DougPaul]

I believe that two of the reasons that bear proof "vaults" were not placed in areas like Marcy Dam in the Adirondacks are

1) these easy answers are often abused. People are not being trained to inprove their back country skills. OK, so it may not make much of a difference in the Adirondacks- but sloppy backcountry skills can contribute to a lethal encounter in Yellowstone. Both people as well as bears need education.
2) the presence of these man-made contraptions are counter to the Master Plan for the area- which dicatates less permanent man-made structures so as to be conforming to the definition of wilderness.

3) Money?

Doug

 

[tracker]

I agree with snowshoe and oldfogie, in the high use areas there is really no other option now. Bears are smart, opportunistic animals in those areas if they find even the most well hung food bag, they'll figure a way to get it down. Also, in regard to the canisters, many of the national parks such as Yellowstone require canisters in the trouble areas. In fact, Denali National Park required their use on a trip I did way back in 1987.

 

[Butch79]

Actually, did have a bear (or bears) pull down a bag and devour our stuff overnight, at a campsite off the Ward Brook Trail while we were working on a Seymour-Sewards trip -- although that was about twenty years ago. Still, can't say it's never happened.

Aren't the bear-canister regs now in effect for the High Peaks as of a couple of weeks ago? Or does that not apply to west of the Hudson?

Happy trails --
Uncle Butch

 

[rhihn]

Aren't the bear-canister regs now in effect for the High Peaks as of a couple of weeks ago? Or does that not apply to west of the Hudson?

The new regs are for the Eastern HP area. Second hand info, but I've heard that they are apparently still not official yet. July 5 was the last day for "public comment," after which the DEC can either implement or modifiy the rule. In either case, the public will be informed (how?) as to start date. Someone on another forum recently spoke with a ranger, who said it would probably be "official" by the end of July. Another poster said that cables have been removed, and the rangers are currently providing bear cans for people caught without them for one night, but people are being told they will have to leave the next day and get their own. Next year it's a $250 ticket and being told to leave immediately.

 

[oldfogie]

Are these fines really enforceable? Nobody carries that much cash (if any) with them into the wilderness.

A ticket? A person can always give a fictitious name and address. Who takes their wallet and driver's license with them when camping? Very few I'd guess.
I think the best response is to just throw them out of the site! No cannister, NO camping. Period. Having wasted a full-pack hike-in will be quite educational.

Have cannisters for rent (like they do snowshoes) at the Loj. Sign-in registers should have big bold signs announcing first a grace period, and then full enforcement (no excuses). Use the profits for ranger salaries.