Salt Tablets?

[sli74]

When hiking, I just drink plain water and have never had any problems that I can say was caused by not drinking something special. After hiking, I sometimes replace the lost sodium by licking it off the rim of a glass (at a Mexican restaurant) and washing it down with a cool light-green liquid.

Lack of electrolytes is however a real problem for some and is neither hype nor myth and many people don't know about replacing lost electrolytes so though you might not lose enough sodium etc or drink enough water to experience the effects of low electrolytes this can pose an issue for many. Of course each of our bodies and the responses we have to high levels of exertion, the temps and other weather conditions, amount of sweat generated, amount of water and food and type of food all have an effect, it is VERY important to be informed about the possibility of electrolyte imbalance and atleast have some high sodium foods or electrolyte tablets just in case. Better safe than sorry ya know Though a Mexican Restaurant electrolyte replacement sounds WAY better.

sli74

 

[sli74]

A frequently reocurring topic...

Electrolyte drinks consist primarily of water, sodium (table salt, NaCl), posassium (KCl), sugar (varies), color, flavor, lots of hype, and a price tag to match.

The electrolytes replace losses in sweat and the sugars are to increase the water absorbtion rate and provide a small amount of fuel.

I posted a recipe for a homemade electrolyte drink plus additional info in http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=54650&postcount=21. The entire thread is worth a read: http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4914.
(If you have trouble with the URLs, search on "long distance nutrition", post #21. Searching on "electrolytes" will bring up several threads on the topic.)

Doug

You are absolutely right BUT I am lazy and Gatorade is easy and tastes pretty okay

sli74

 

[ripple]

Anyone ever use the mix called Emergen-C? Good stuff. Mix it w/ some 6 oz water and down the hatch. THe company also makes an electro mix. THe packets are small and light weight. Some flavors are much better then others. Raspberry is my choice.
link
http://www.alacercorp.com/

 

[beverly]

Cranberry Emergen-C

Emergen-C is great - throw a couple of packets in a liter bottle. I think it is better than Gatorade and not so sugary sweet. It's got electrolytes/minerals, plus 1000mg of Vitamin C.

And I also recommend DougPaul's sugar/morton lite salt (gookinaid) recipe in the link. I add 1/4 to 1/2 cup of lemon juice. A couple of liters of that concoction got me through a long day of hiking on Saturday - with a couple more liters of water. Making your own also gives you the ability to use more or less sugar to taste.

 

[DougPaul]

Catskills Yeti, sli74,

I have used or tried gatorade and gookinaid. Both worked for me.

When I found out how easy (and cheap) it is to make your own, I made my own. It also allows me to adjust the mix to my needs/wants. (Some of the mixes assume that you are not eating anything else. If one does eat, it may be necessary to reduce the concentration of a mix or the sugar content if you are making your own.)

sli74:
Agree, individual need for electrolytes varies widely. I have read that there is also adaptation involved, so an individual's need can vary with recent experience. Supposedly it takes about a week of exercising in the heat to reduce the salt content of one's sweat.

Doug

 

[sli74]

sli74:
Agree, individual need for electrolytes varies widely. I have read that there is also adaptation involved, so an individual's need can vary with recent experience. Supposedly it takes about a week of exercising in the heat to reduce the salt content of one's sweat.

Doug

The main culprit in the development of hyponatremia in the cases we are likely to see as hikers is over-hydration with a combination of a lack of replacing lost salts in sweat. One does not become hyponatremic just by excercise alone, this would require extended excercise like an Ironman or some such event. However, for someone like me who hikes for many more hours because of my slow pace, it is further important to stay balanced.

I had a good journal article on this somewhere but having a tough time locating it right now.

sli74

 

[CatskillsYeti]

sli - I have seen the effects of severe hyponatremia firsthand, although the situation had nothing to do with either hiking or exercise. My elderly father-in-law had a blocked urethra caused by a prostate condition. He accumulated so much fluid in his body that his electrolyte levels were some of the lowest the ER staff had seen. It nearly killed him. He's alive and physically much better, but he has lost a good deal of mental ability, including short- and medium-term memory.

While it's unlikely that any of us would be in a similar extreme sodium-depleted condition, the experience brought home to me the importance of proper electrolyte balance.

 

[weatherman]

When you look at the sports medicine journals (and then carefully read the ingredients in Cytomax and similar nasty-tasting drinks), you learn: 1. Replace sodium and potassium. B) It does not take much beyond what you would normally eat and drink to do this. III- Protein in small amounts is a very good thing and really helps endurance. A ratio of 4:1 "carbs" to protein (yes, Tramper Al, it just takes too long to say "carbohydrates" ) is suggested.

So, before, I drank water and ate gorp with salted peanuts on long hikes. What did I change? Added more banana chips (potassium) to my gorp. And brought beef jerky on long hot hikes. Seems to work well! Doesn't cost much extra either.

Weatherman

 

[spencer]

I trust all doctors, that aren't mine...

spencer

 

[SAR-EMT40]

Just as a side line: If you are worried about hyponatremia keep your eyes open for pedal edema or generalized edema, but in particular pedal edema generally strikes first. Anytime someones ankles/feet are swollen then they are retaining water for some reason. If this isn't normal for that person, then there is probably a problem. Problems like CHF, hyponatremia, kidney issues or other problems could be the reason. This would be a fairly early indicator. Like sli74 said. You would really have to be beating the crap out of yourself for a long time with just water replacement for hyponatremia to become a problem. If your feet no longer fit inside your shoes. Consider drinking some gatorade.

Keith

 

[explorer13421]

Interesting thread with many thoughtful comments. A different thought: The water bottle used to mix the drink in is almost certainly now a "smellable," that is something that a High Peaks area black bear will investigate. Don't take it into your tent for the night or leave it in a closed up pack.

 

[DougPaul]

Re hyponatremia while hiking:
From what I have read, it is mostly a desert problem.

The recent warnings have focused on distance running. One reference said that the kidneys can slow down or shutdown due to the stresses of running and thus one can retain water that one would ordinarliy piss out. Hikers generally take it a little easier and pay more attention to their hydration levels and less attention to their traveling speed than do runners. Hikers also generally know that help may be many hours away and stay back somewhat farther from the edge. Unlike the hiker, a runner in an organized race can count on rapid medical aid if he gets into trouble.

With normal functioning kidneys and adequate water and electrolyte intake (via food or in one's water), one should be ok.

Doug

 

[sli74]

Re hyponatremia while hiking:
From what I have read, it is mostly a desert problem.

Hikers generally take it a little easier and pay more attention to their hydration levels and less attention to their traveling speed than do runners. Hikers also generally know that help may be many hours away and stay back somewhat farther from the edge. Unlike the hiker, a runner in an organized race can count on rapid medical aid if he gets into trouble.

With normal functioning kidneys and adequate water and electrolyte intake (via food or in one's water), one should be ok.

Doug

I agree with most of what you say BUT symptoms of hyponatremia such as nausea, headache, etc to name a few can be present before the condition is so far gone that it is a drastic problem. These symptoms can make hiking difficult or uncomfortable so it is important to monitor your fluid and electrolyte intake. Like I said before these symptoms can be brought on by overhydration relative to sodium/potassium intake particularly on a hot day when you are sweating out "salts" and taking in larger quantities of water. What we are talking about here is not necessarily a medical condition that requires hospital or doctor care but a situation where taking in some sodium and potassium (however you choose to do that) might help one feel better.

I have found a website that gives some useful information on this topic, granted it is put out by Gatorade BUT it has many references from reputable journals at the bottom for further research on the issue if you choose to read non-biased scientific articles. I choose the Gatorade site to post because it presents the matter in a fashion that non-scientist can grasp. I have no affliation with Gatorade or any other company just for the record.

What might not be a problem for one might be a problem for another and it is important to be informed and to consider what measures might best fix a situation or prevent it in the first place.

sli74

http://www.gssiweb.com/reflib/refs/604/SSE_88_Content.cfm?pid=96

 

[sli74]

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/heat.html

This website also has good information, though directed at endurance atheletes who are most prone to this, on a hot humid day hiking somewhere with little shade or lots of elevation gain, etc. it can affect hikers, it does affect me.

Also, the reason it might be mostly a desert situation is because it is almost always hot there. But with temps climbing into the 90s here the last couple of weeks and into this summer, it is an important thing to consider when you are feeling the effects and to help your hike be more pleasant? Anyway, I hope the info is helpful to anyone who is interested.

sli74

 

[sli74]

I knew this was discussed just recently with just as much disagreement/discussion about this issue. Here is the link to that thread for anyone interested. I guess the bottom line is if you feel you might be suffereing from this and your symptoms match up, then give electrolytes a try, if they fix the problem go with what works. If you do fine with just water, GREAT, go with what works.

I just know that a lot of people suffer from low electrolyte and electrolyte imbalances and just suffer instead of going with the easy fix.

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6133&page=1&pp=15

Anyway, great discussion.

sli74

 

[Sherpa John]

Thank you all who replied to help me understand a bit more about this topic. I truly appreciate it.

Thank you Sli also for your infitie wisdom on the subject and for posting beverly's old thread.

SJ

 

[Davehiker]

Salt pills

The only time I took one was as a boy scout on the LT (about 25 yrs. ago!) I took a salt tablet with about a quart of water, and very promptly threw the whole thing up, right on the trail. NEVER AGAIN!

Salty snacks and a little Gatorade for me, now. I just may try just adding a pinch of Lite-salt to my drink, though.

 

[NewHampshire]

Ok, maybe you folks can tell me if what I have is actually a "salt tablet" or something more. I picked up a bottle of "Thermotabs" from CVS. On the back of the bottle, under nutritional facts I have the complete listing as follows:

Chloride (as sodium and potassium chloride)........287mg

Sodium (as sodium chloride).............................180mg

Potassium (as potassium chloride).....................15mg


Since there is not a high percentage of potassium is that bad? Am I still better of with some kind of supplement reinforced drink (like gatorade, DougPauls magic mix, etc.)? Interesting thread, and Im sure I am the instigation of it too. Sherpa asked me why I had these tablets and the best I could tell him was "I dunno if they work or not, but they were recommended and they havent seemed to hurt any yet." So I am just as in the dark as he was. So far my heads spinning a bit (been waaaaaay to long since biology class) but I am learning something!
Brian

 

[DougPaul]

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/heat.html

Also, the reason it might be mostly a desert situation is because it is almost always hot there.

Nice reference.

A desert doesn't have to be hot--just very low precip.

The deserts of the American Southwest are hot (during the day--it can get quite chilly at night) as well as dry.

One's sweat can evaporate so rapidly that the skin never gets wet. The net effect is that one can lose far more salt and water than one realizes and become both hyponatremic and dehydrated.

Pre-hydration (drinking a lot before hiking)--which can predispose one to hyponatremia--is sometimes recommened before desert hiking to reduce one's overall water loss.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Ok, maybe you folks can tell me if what I have is actually a "salt tablet" or something more. I picked up a bottle of "Thermotabs" from CVS. On the back of the bottle, under nutritional facts I have the complete listing as follows:

Chloride (as sodium and potassium chloride)........287mg

Sodium (as sodium chloride).............................180mg

Potassium (as potassium chloride).....................15mg

Since there is not a high percentage of potassium is that bad?

Looks like a salt tablet to me. Don't know if that is enough K. Both Gookinaid and Gatorade have a higher relative amount of K.

Gookinaid (per liter H2Oa):
K 426 mg
Na 295 mg

Gatorade (per liter H2Oa):
Na 470 mg
K 128 mg

Looks to me like the best way to use them would be to dissolve 2 tabs
in a liter of H2O.

If I want to travel light, I just carry some Morton Lite Salt in a small plastic bottle and add to my water as needed: 1/4 tsp (K 340mg, Na 290mg) per liter H2O. The sugar is the least important ingredient. (See my posts in the thread "Long distance nutrition" for more info.)

Doug