Tom_Murphy
Member
Thirty years leater, I still instincively yell "BALL" when there is a fumble doing a football game. Doesn't matter where I am. Thank you Pop Warner football, the things you learn in your youth tend to stick.
Slides On The Tripyramids
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Thirty years leater, I still instincively yell "BALL" when there is a fumble doing a football game. Doesn't matter where I am. Thank you Pop Warner football, the things you learn in your youth tend to stick.
MadRiver
New member
Being ex-military I usually yell “incoming”; however DougPaul is correct, the proper terminology is essential in a split second encounter.
I would be surprised if more than a handful of the annual slide ascenders are rock climbers with enough training to A) Shout "Rock!" and B) React instantly. Can you enlighten us as to what that instant or trained reaction should be?
Tim
Tim
DougPaul
Well-known member
A) Whenever I have been in a group of hikers about to ascend a slide, someone (often me) instructs them in the proper calls and guidelines.
B) Reactions vary with the situation:
* If there is something to hide behind, hide behind it.
* If you are in an exposed position, hug the rock--make yourself as "small" as possible.
* Hold your pack above you to absorb the impact.
* If it is coming from high enough above, track it so you can try to dodge it if it comes toward you.
Each time a rock bounces, it can head off in an unpredictable direction.
I have seen rocks falling down a large face (~4k ft high). From a distance all you can see is puffs of dust at each impact point, up to hundreds of feet apart. Such a rock could skip over you or just as easily kill you.
Some other techniques to reduce the risk:
* Stay out of other climbers fall lines. (The fall line is the route that a rock would likely fall--typically straight down the slope.) Thus it can also be described as avoid getting directly below another climber.
* Avoid getting directly above another climber (this puts him in your fall line).
* Stay close together so that the rocks don't have a chance to gain much speed before they pass any other climbers.
* Learn not to knock rocks down. Pick your feet up vertically and carefully and put them down vertically and carefully--scuffing or normal walking sends showers of rock down. (Trained rock climbers can often pass over loose rock without knocking a grain of sand down while hikers passing over the same spot often send down a massive shower.)
* Wear a helmet.
* If you are using a rope, try to manage it so that it doesn't knock rocks down.
* Choose routes that have low risk of rockfall.
EDIT: thought of a couple more techniques:
* Wait until the party above clears off the climb
* On some alpine routes, the morning sun melts the ice and causes rockfall. Thus some routes are safest between ~midnight and ~dawn. You may also want a clear sky and cold night to freeze the ice and "glue" the mountain together.
Doug
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I think this point illustrates what I am getting at - most of the people on the slide (or the South Slide, Flume Slide, or crossing Wildcat A's slide, or...) in a given year are after the NH 48 patch and have no clue about this or any other rock climbing etiquette or what the proper word to yell is. I've never seen anyone with a helmet on the slide, nor a rope for that matter. It's not "climbing", it's "hiking". Excepting of course people who are out just to climb the slides/gullies/ravines with technical gear.
Thanks for the detail... although I still doubt my first instinct will ever be to yell "Rock!"
An informal survey of my family reveals none of the three of them would ever yell "Rock!" I got an "I don't know, could I get a whistle out in time?", a "Look out!", and "Heads Up!" (recalling I would probably yell "Heads Up!" myself.)
Tim
I still like my approach, head out real early and be ahead of the crowd. A generalization on my part is that the later a party is heading up a mountain, generally the less experienced. Obviously there are exceptions but I would expect many of us encounter "tourons" heading up the trail in the late morning or early afternoon, blatently underequipped, asking how much longer to the top. In my experience those folks are the ones who dont realize the consequences of starting a rock falls. I have over the years personally encountered both poorly supervised or educated children as well as adults intentionally causing rockfalls in areas where there may be folks downslope.
Some day I will find like minded folks to join me on the old Marston Slide trail at Baxter. Reportedly the reason it was rerouted was the high potential for rock fall from parties up higher on the trail. I expect its remoteness for rescue purposes also didnt help. I know folks who have done it in the past and they rate it more challenging then the north slide of Trypyramid.
Some day I will find like minded folks to join me on the old Marston Slide trail at Baxter. Reportedly the reason it was rerouted was the high potential for rock fall from parties up higher on the trail. I expect its remoteness for rescue purposes also didnt help. I know folks who have done it in the past and they rate it more challenging then the north slide of Trypyramid.
MadRiver
New member
Hmmm, a group of us are going in August for a week, I just might have to give it a shot. Though I have done the Brothers before, I do not remember all of the detail since I did it 7 years ago. I guess it is time to revisit both peaks.
I just retrieved my Baxter map from my car. Given how close the contour lines are just past the little pond on the Marston Trail, should I assume that is where the old trail is located?
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I have not looked for the old route for 15 plus years but remember seeing a obvious old route going straight where the relocation turned left and the OJI trail came in from the south. There is or was a sign at the top of the trail near South Brother. The original slide trail didnt go anywhere near the pond. Basically the trail just followed the route of the slide that the trail follows from the trailhead. At some point the slide brook from the OJI Coe slide joins it. The blue markers are GPS coords on my software program. I would expect it would make a nice loop of the brothers and out via the new trail.Caveat Emptor, I havent climbed it and it may have changed substantially in the 20 years since people regularly climbed it. It was a standard hiking trail and i expect early 100 highest folks used it to access Fort and the Brothers.
I have reservations labor day weekend and may take a visit over there so I would be interested in any scouting info you can supply
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DougPaul
Well-known member
I don't consider other people's ignorance of proper safe procedure to be an excuse for me (or my party) to use unsafe procedure. And maybe they will learn proper procedures if they observe others using them.
In some of the SAR and/or accident threads we tend to denigrate people who engage in outdoor activities beyond their competence and equipment levels. The issues are the same here, just the arena is changed--these slide hikes often bring hikers onto easy technical terrain and thus out of their zone of competence.
I have engaged in a number of activities which include obvious risks including winter hiking, BC skiing, rock climbing, ice climbing, and whitewater boating. In all cases, safety procedures were part of my instruction. IMO, slide climbing is no different.
<meta comment>
Yes I know I am being an inflexible harda$$ on this issue. The life/lives you save or injuries you may prevent may be your own or those of your companions. (Or maybe even a stranger's.)
</meta comment>
Doug
Driver8
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Speaking of slides, has anyone heard of a climb of the Hillman's Highway Slide? How long before that settles in enough to be reasonably safe? I'd also enjoy, someday, climbing, in the Ammo Ravine, along the streambed which runs almost all the way to Washington's summit, fairly directly, meeting up with the Crawford Path at about 6000'.
And I am playing devil's advocate. But the point remains that experienced climbers will need to co-exist with hikers on these class three routes and both must be ready to assess the situation if anyone yells anything.
Tim
MadRiver
New member
In the interest of full discloser, I was leading a group up the North Slide and caused a few rocks to tumble down the slide. One actually hit a woman in the face who I was leading. Not sure what I yelled at the time. After hiking back down to her location and patching her up we finished the hike relatively unscathed. I do however believe that a pre-planned word would have been helpful.
AdkWalrus
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My first ever slide climb was Macomb with a summer camp group in 1992, when the 1990 slide was still quite fresh. Our head counselor on that trip gave us all the instruction to yell "rock" if we dislodged anything from what was then (and is still to this day) a very rubble-filled slide. It's been instinct for me ever since. In fact, even when hiking on just a trail with loose rock, I will often give my companions a short spiel about calling "rock". Just FWIW.
DougPaul
Well-known member
Yes, we put up with them (and sometimes go elsewhere to avoid them...). We also sometimes try to educate them.
FWIW, I also avoid hiking/climbing/boating with "accidents waiting to happen"...
Doug
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Mike P.
Well-known member
It's Rock, and you can always practice. I've got my kids practicing even on a regular trail uphill.
TDawg
Well-known member
That sign is still there in the middle of nowhere as of last October. That explains it's location, my group was baffled as to it's purpose. Don't remember an obvious trail bed coming in at the sign, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. The ground was snow-covered at the time.
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sierra
Well-known member
One fine day, I was leading a group up Sliding Board 5.7 on Whitehorse ledge. At the belay on top of the crux pitch, one of our group dropped his camera, it slid down the face into plenty of climber's, I yelled " ROCK" just out of habit, all looked up, luckily (not for my friend) his camera basically imploded on impact and only pieces reached the climbers below. I doubt yelling " camera" would have been as effective .
One fine day, I was leading a group up Sliding Board 5.7 on Whitehorse ledge. At the belay on top of the crux pitch, one of our group dropped his camera, it slid down the face into plenty of climber's, I yelled " ROCK" just out of habit, all looked up, luckily (not for my friend) his camera basically imploded on impact and only pieces reached the climbers below. I doubt yelling " camera" would have been as effective .
I believe the proper phrases there would have been 'Say cheese!'
byron8
New member
I was using Five Ten Tennies, which don't take up much room in the pack, but the funny thing is one of the shoes came off and made me slip down the slide about 10 feet. The problem w/approach shoes is they're so uncomfortable with those pointy toes. The best bet would be to find some comfortable hikers w/sticky rubber soles, but there are few options out there. Simple answer: not worth the effort.
shamples
New member
I did the Tri's 2-3 years ago as a solo hike up the North Slide and down South Slide and had no issues. Just a little extra care with the loose rock footing up and down, but I thought the book blew it out of proportion in terms of toughness. Def an awesome hike that I would do again.
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