Truth Time: Could you survive 24 hours?

[Dugan]

Sorry about this, I want to become a better guy, but not yet.

It is unfortunate that "This is a silly question" was not included in the choices, because I would have opted for that. I don't buy the notion that I should have to be prepared to survive 24 hours every time I leave civilization.

Out of about 2 gazzillion hikers, a small number get lost or need to be rescued during a summer. They are invariable trashed for being unprepared and having bad judgment and yet most of them survive 24 hours before help arrives or they stumble out of the woods.

So pardon me while I continue to hike my local mountain with a fanny pack after work, and bushwhack remote mountains without telling anyone where I'm going on the weekend.

Hike free or die.


Or was it hike free AND die.

Exactly! Are we going to regulate what has to be carried, classes for education? Mileage? Speed? Schedule? Who checks? Who pays?

I'd like to think I'm prepared, but not having a crystal ball, I cannot predict what I might run into, and you can't pack for every conceivable possibility.

I think Pete has dibs on the corneal injuries.

 

[sierra]

Not only would I survive, I wouldnt be that miserable to be honest. First off in any epic, its the mind that see's to your success or failure. Anyone out for even a dayhike must have enough gear to survive the poster's "one night out" or they proboly picked the wrong hobby, I mean 50 degrees? I know rain was mentioned but think,ie.. shell,cover from elements nearby, xtra food and drink on hand, warm dry clothes in backup, over the counter pain meds, first aid kit, is it me or is this a no brainer? You want to place a wager and wait a the Valley way parking lot, Ill run up in said conditions and then meet you for breakfast the next day, oh I forgot about the injury, you can wack my leg with a big stick if you want before I leave the trailhead.
In all fairness, think of some infamous epics ie.. ALIVE, that bad scene on Everest a few years back ( beck), those people where in a world of shit, but they where beyond tough mentally, thats how you survive imho.

 

[werdigo49]

This is NOT a silly question. Individuals who hike alone, as I do, ought to be prepared for exactly the kind of scenario the OP described.

A couple of years ago I spent an unanticipated night out, in the Adirondacks, and got a chance to test the adequacy of my little stuff-sack "emergency kit." (My daypack always carries this stuff sack (compass, whistle, matches, all sorts of other little things, including detailed identification and contact information), and another "first-aid kit" stuff sack.)

The emergency kit's "space blanket" kept me warm but tore when I tried to stretch it over my feet, but my full GoreTex suit (always in the daypack) and a chunk of extra carpet padding made the night tolerable. I could have made a fire if necessary, and had my water filter. (I now carry a stronger "space blanket.")

 

[NewHampshire]

This is kind of funny you ask because I seem to be in the "Overkill" department all the time, and I joke about being so all the time. You see, I could be headed to a wooded, 2000 foot summit, sunny with not a cloud in the sky, 90 degree temps.....and I will always be carrying my rain gear (pants and jacket), a fleece jacket, winter hat and fleece gloves along with 2 compasses, headlamp and first aid kit. This past Sunday on our Morgan/Percival hike I went as light as I ever had by dropping the rain gear, hat, gloves and fleece jacket. I felt somehow....naked . But next weekend its the Hancocks, and ALL of that gear is going back in. Its just the way I am. I would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

Brian

 

[RoySwkr]

I'm in the majority that voted yes, because I try to bring enough to survive an uncomfortable night out. I do tough bushwhacks on 80-degree not 0-degree days even though they might be better with more clothes on. I avoid hiking alone in bad conditions or when they are forecast.

Of course the type of injury matters a lot. It may be tough to put on warm clothes if your back is broken, or to light your stove if you're snow blind. An old Appalachia reported on a young woman who drowned in a minor brook: apparently she slipped and knocked herself unconscious, and her head landed underwater in a pool only a few inches deep. If a friend was along or she'd landed a little differently, she would have just woken up and walked out.

 

[Pig Pen]

How about this idea?

Heavy packs make you go slower, get more fatigued, and generally increase the risk of falls, turned ankles and other accidents. So traveling light might not be so good if you get stuck out there, but it could decrease your risk of having a problem in the first place.

Plus I am trying to picture myself meticulously deploying my bivy sack with my newly broken femur.

 

[Neil]

This is NOT a silly question. Individuals who hike alone, as I do, ought to be prepared for exactly the kind of scenario the OP described.

I don't buy the notion that I should have to be prepared to survive 24 hours every time I leave civilization.

I think your both right, most of the time. Now if only I could figure out exactly when each of you was right as it pertains to me.

 

[Paradox]

Quod me nutrit me destruit, dude.

Igpay atinlay siay otnay airfay!

I Always have rain/wind shells (top and bottom), a hat, an extra layer of polypropylene, plus a small first aid kit and several Cliff bars, map and compass, GPS and cell phone It all doesn't weigh more than 4 pounds. I think that gets me through.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Most of these points are not new. The average reader here is probably more prepared than the average hiker at large. My point here was to illustrate that even given that, 11% (at the moment, myself included) are not always prepared to survive in conditions which are not all that uncommon.

My goal is to ask a point-blank, yes/no question. 11% of us (minimum) answered no. 11% of us need to think about acceptable levels of risk and mitigating them. Myself included!

Tim

 

[Paradox]

Igpay atinlay siay otnay airfay!

I Always have rain/wind shells (top and bottom), a hat, an extra layer of polypropylene, plus a small first aid kit and several Cliff bars, map and compass, GPS and cell phone It all doesn't weigh more than 4 pounds. I think that gets me through.

I should also mention that I could always survive a two dog night!

 

[rhihn]

I am almost always prepared to spend a night in the woods. "Almost" is the operative word here, and sometimes I admit to not being fully prepared to do so (carelessness). But most of the time, I am prepared. My "daypack" is the same pack I normally use for many multi-day trips, and I bring a bag, minimal shelter, and enough food so as not to starve, and fixin's to start a fire, if need be. It's not always the most comfortable "daypack" but I enjoy the extra "mental" comfort. As Oldsmores said, injury is the real wildcard there. I don't think the thred is silly at all, but I do envy Pig Pen's "live free or die" attitude and admit to some paranoia on my part! As for heavy packs slowing you down, increasing falls, etc., for me, going slower will generally decrease my rate of injury. But at my age, I don't go that fast anyway!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

It depends on what the injury was. Severe corneal abrasion, dislocated shoulder, herniated lumbar or cervical disc, femoral fracture (yikes!).

In my experience, things happen when injured. Adrenalin? Inner strenght? I've had several injuries and they didn't REALLY effect me until I was 'safe'. In the case of corneal abrasion pupils were dilated until I reached the hospital. After that, I couldn't see for over a week. The fractured skull/concussion didn't bother me much (except for the throwing up) again, until I reached another person to take me to the hospital. Dislocated shoulder was on a bicycle, and again, I had something to let me get back on the bike, and get to help.

The broken knee was something else. The pain in my underarms was horrendous! I made crutches out of some branches, and the ripped the sh*t out of my underarms. Bothered me much more than the knee.

This tells me that, in an emergency, something 'kicks in' to make things go easier. You just do what you have to do. One thing I've learned through my accidents. The gear you have with you is only a small part of the survival picture.

 

[una_dogger]

Could I survive it?? Well I sure as hell would have the *WILL* to survive it. Regardless of what I had or didn't have in my pack, I'd be cramming my little self under some deadfall and pulling whatever branches/leaf litter I could around me to insulate myself from the rain and dropping temps. This is assuming, of course, that I am not hiking in the White Mountains and above treeline, unable to crawl down to treeline.


As Neil mentioned, what type of injury? Pain and an immobilized limb is one thing, I know I have a high pain tolerance, have broken bones while alone and even fractured my spine while alone one winter night bringing firewood into my cottage, so mentally, I have dealt with high pain and panic before and I would use that prior experience to mentally talk myself down from any panic mode I was feeling. But eye injuries resulting in blindness? Not sure how I would deal with that. One foot in front of the other and the will to survive.

Hard to answer this without deeper context. My best answer is that my strong will to survive and my comfort level in the outdoors would be my stongest tools.

One common theme echoed in the many posts before mine touches on the will to survive, to do what is necessary, the inner strength that instinctively causes one to rise to action and above pain or fear. If a person lacks that inner strength, or is oblivious to the direness of thier situation, things could go downhill fast.

 

[MichaelJ]

I think that's a really great outlook and the way to think in one of these scenarios. I'd like to build on that with two little additions:

the words on my wrist, "Live Strong"

the immortal words of Douglas Adams, "Don't Panic"

 

[DougPaul]

Heavy packs make you go slower, get more fatigued, and generally increase the risk of falls, turned ankles and other accidents. So traveling light might not be so good if you get stuck out there, but it could decrease your risk of having a problem in the first place.

This trade-off is nothing new. Most of us here on this BBS are hikers and the risks of carrying extra weight in hiking are as you describe. If you look at mountaineering in the bigger mountains, there are situations where speed is safety (eg pass quickly through a rockfall zone to reduce the probability of being hit, pass under a face before the sun hits it which melts the ice holding the loose rocks in place, get down from the heights before the afternoon thunderstorms arrive, etc). Weight prevents speed. As they began to move from their smaller local hills to the Alps, the British climbers learned that "if you carry bivouac gear, you will have to bivouac"...

There is no "right" answer here. One is simply trading off one kind of risk for another. Hiking/mountaineering is not risk free--you can only try to trade-off and control the risk as best you can. You can be the most careful person around and still have an accident. You could also be the most careless person around and have nothing bad happen.

Plus I am trying to picture myself meticulously deploying my bivy sack with my newly broken femur.

In my case, I initially tried to get my XC skis off and failed due to the broken femur. I was working on getting my pack off (I had released only one of the three straps) when Andy wandered onto the scene. I hope that I could have deployed sufficient gear to stabilize myself, but I fortunately didn't have to find out. His help was gratefully received and may have saved my life.

The weight of my pack (~23lbs) may have impaired my turn around the blowdown that tripped me up, I don't know. (It was an easy turn on easy terrain.) And the gear would have been useless if I were unable to deploy it or have it deployed for me.

Doug

 

[Pete_Hickey]

"Don't Panic"

Funny... Panic is the last thing that comes to me. I don't think panic is a natural reaction.... at least for me.

I don't *think* I have a strong will to survive either. When you wake up in a pool of blood at the bottom of a cliff, and you're alone, what are you going to do? Wait there? That would be uncomfortable. I got up and walked. It was better than the alternative.

 

[NewHampshire]

I should also mention that I could always survive a two dog night!

What about a Three Dog Night?



Brian

 

[Paradox]

What about a Three Dog Night?



Brian

Only if I where hiking this trail

 

[DougPaul]

This tells me that, in an emergency, something 'kicks in' to make things go easier. You just do what you have to do. One thing I've learned through my accidents. The gear you have with you is only a small part of the survival picture.

This is similar to what happened to me. After the crash, I was lying on my side in the snow. Step 1 was to get the skis off. That failed when I found that my leg was broken just above the knee. New step 1 was to get my pack off, get more insulation on, and me out of the snow. It was just another job--no excitement, no panic... You just do what you need to do.

Obviously, if you panic, you reduce your chances of survival. You are better off if you remain in mental control and just do what you have to do.

Doug


Addendum:
Rescue manuals suggest the following sequence of actions (or something similar):
1. Get yourself in control. If need be take a pause. In a group, a leader may/should step forward.
2. Proceed safely. Don't take undue risks in rescuing the victim--don't add yourself to the list of victims...
3. Emergency rescue/first aid (if the victim is in immediate risk of increased harm, try to prevent it). Eg, pull the victim out of the water, give CPR, stop bleeding, etc
4. Analyze the situation.
5. Make a plan.
6. Carry out the plan.

 

[DougPaul]

Funny... Panic is the last thing that comes to me. I don't think panic is a natural reaction.... at least for me.

I don't *think* I have a strong will to survive either. When you wake up in a pool of blood at the bottom of a cliff, and you're alone, what are you going to do? Wait there? That would be uncomfortable. I got up and walked. It was better than the alternative.

Exactly. I too just did what I had to do.

In my case, quitting or panicing would have most likely meant death unless someone happened to come by.

Doug