Washington Injury?

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Sherpette

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I heard briefly on the news this morning, a blip on a woman injured on Crawford Path yesterday. She apparently had to be rescued off of Washington. I was just curious if anyone had heard anything more substantial about the injury she sustained?
 
So here is a question for you.

Let's say you are in the Whites somewhere and get hurt. You have a cell phone and service. Who do you call?
 
bobandgeri said:
So here is a question for you.

Let's say you are in the Whites somewhere and get hurt. You have a cell phone and service. Who do you call?

Domino's, Have some pizza's delivered to the local SAR team...wait 30 minutes then call the SAR team, be sure to tell them who sent the pizza's.:D

Seriously, Dial 911 have the operator contact Fish & Game and NH State Police. Be sure to explain which trail you are on and give a reference as to where on that trail you are, such as: I'm on the Twinway about 2/10ths of a mile west of South Twin towards Galehead Hut.

Be sure to discribe the nature of your injury and what you have for gear.

Perhaps one of our SAR members can elaborate on this:
 
bobandgeri said:
So here is a question for you.

Let's say you are in the Whites somewhere and get hurt. You have a cell phone and service. Who do you call?

Yes you call 911 or NH Fish and Game directly. F&G has authority for all woodlands search and rescue in the state. They call in the various volunteer SAR groups in the region. Try to give as much as exact info as you can. Location, nature of injury, age and size of victim, etc. The biggest problem in SAR is getting accurate info, getting to the right trailhead, finding the injured person, etc, if it's a rescue. Search is different. The fog of SAR. If you call 911, remember that the dispatcher may not be familiar with the mountains. Don't say you're on Twin with a broken ankle. Say you are on North Twin Mountain. You get the drill, I'm sure. That's if the phone works, of course. If another hiker is reporting your injury, there are (or were) accident report forms on the backs of maps in the AMC Guide. You might look at that to get an idea of what to self-report if you are able. SAR_EMT and others, anything to add?
 
Cutting out the "middleman" might save a few seconds, but do you really think there is an easier phone number to remember. What if you're hiking in New York or Vermont, are you going to memorize all the Fish & Game numbers? Besides, all 911 calls get recorded, so if they need to, the message can be played back later. Some Fish & Game as well as some Police Departments also record incoming calls, but the 911 operators are set up to relay information to parties involved.

I'd stick with 911.....That's what it's there for.
 
The report of the women is actually correct. It matches exactly with what I heard. I was not involved at all except listening with interest.

I am in the middle on this one. Waumbek is absolutely correct on who is in charge in rescues in the forest. Normally I would without hesitation say to call 911. The problem in the mountains is that your call could easily (has happened before) be answered by a dispatcher in Maine or elsewhere. I wouldn't argue with anyone that would call FG directly though. Me personally, I would probably call 911 and request specifically that I want to talk to the state police in New Hampshire.

I agree 100% with Waumbek in getting the most accurate information on the patients location and status is the most important thing that you can do. Is he concious and alert. Does he have possible head and neck injuries? Does he have chest pain? Is he bleeding uncontrollably. Is he having trouble breathing? Did you splint his injury? Did you check his CSM (Circulation, Sensory, Motion) distal to any injury, before and after you helped? Did you get baseline vitals (this is sooo important)? Are his vitals within norms for him? Ask him, if you can, if he knows what his normal pressure and pulse etc., is. If it is out of norm is this normal for him? Has he had this problem before? Does he know what is wrong? What makes it better? What makes it worse? When did this problem start? What is the pain on a scale of 1 to 10. Does he take medicine for whatever is wrong that he has forgotten to take or bring?

These are just a few (this is definetly not a complete list, I could go on ad nausem) of the questions that a medical responder would want to know and questions a first responder should be able to answer.

Keith
 
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and for dog owners

If you hike with dog(s), carry an information sheet about the dog both in your pack and in your car, just in case you are incapacitated. Perhaps others can expand on this, but I include at least basic info about the dog, primary vet, vaccination info, known health problems (including allergies), known medical issues, and at least two secondary contacts. I keep one attached to the crate in which my dog travels and another in my pack (also his pack, if he's carrying), along with copies of his rabies vaccination certificate. If my dog were routinely off lead, I would also attach a copy (in plastic) to his collar.
 
Since this thread is likely to garner a fair amount of interest, I'd like to reiterate one point and make a new one:

1. Whatever "it" is, call 911. It's the only number where you're guaranteed to have a human answer your call 24/7, plus make a recording of your call, plus know who to call for your situation. All other alternatives are inferior in some regard. (For instance: the AMC doesn't record calls, Fish & Game doesn't answer 24/7, etc.)

2. Notice the utter lack of mention of a helicopter in this situation while the injured woman was being carried out and then hauled down the Auto Road. When you and your companions are packing "fast and light," think ahead to what you will have with you to care for an injured person while a litter team is being activated, organized, and then probably walking to your location. This incident occurred during some of the warmest weather you can expect on Mt. Washington. YMMV in other situations, and your pack contents might make a life-saving difference for "someone."

(Love that phrase "fog of SAR" ...)
 
GPS info?

When reporting an injury, is supplying GPS coordinates helpful? Are rescuers typically equipped with and trained in the use of GPS units?

I usually know where I am (Not always, but usually) and would always give rescuers the trail location of a victim. But I would think GPS coordinates would help in conditions of limited visibility or darkness.
 
Program numbers

NH_Mtn_Hiker said:
Cutting out the "middleman" might save a few seconds, but do you really think there is an easier phone number to remember. What if you're hiking in New York or Vermont, are you going to memorize all the Fish & Game numbers? Besides, all 911 calls get recorded, so if they need to, the message can be played back later. Some Fish & Game as well as some Police Departments also record incoming calls, but the 911 operators are set up to relay information to parties involved.

I'd stick with 911.....That's what it's there for.
I would call 911, but it is not a bad idea to program telephone numbers of emergency agencies in the area where you hike into your cell phone. You are correct, you would never remember the number!
 
Supplying coordinates is enormously helpful. The Maine Warden Service, NH Fish & Game, and VT State Police (the respective state agencies for SAR missions) all use UTM coordinates. Make sure you know which datum you're using when you report them and include that info.
 
Re helicopters and dogs, excellent points.

Helicopters are in short supply these days for the obvious reason even if they could assist rescues in difficult terrain of the Whites. For a serious injury, plan on being carried out, which takes awhile. F&G does not have enough personnel to assemble the 30 or more people it takes to carry out from higher elevations. They rely on the various volunteer groups, AMC, etc., whoever happens to be closest. It can take awhile to call out all those people, get them to the right trailhead, get organized, hike up and find you. They're dragging a litter and maybe an O2 bottle and other supplies and each SAR volunteer is carrying a pack heavy enough to support himself or herself for 24 hours during the operation, too. (Although in this case the litter was probably at Lakes hut.) In really difficult terrain at night if your injuries are not life-threatening but disabling, someone might take care of you overnight on site until first light makes it possible to carry out safely.

Re dogs, I remember an incident on the Nancy Pond Trail. A woman with four (4) dogs broke an ankle. There were two large protective type dogs (shepherds, I recall) who would not leave her and two smaller dogs who would. Four or five of us hikers found her. I walked out the two smaller dogs, one person stayed with her and the two big dogs, and one or two other trail runners sped down to the trailhead to call for help. I realized when I got down that I didn't have phone numbers for contacts to call and come get the dogs in case it took awhile (overnight) to get her out. It would have been a good idea if I knew something about the dogs I escorted out. As suggested, an "emergency plans and contacts" sheet on the dogs would have helped tremendously because the focus, of course, will be on details about the human victim, not the canine companions.
 
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aiight! i'll start it up again. who takes cell phones when they're hikin' anyway? isn't the point to get away from all that. it sure is for me. i know, i know, i know--most people say they leave 'em off and all. and maybe they do. but still. doncha like to feel like you're livin' a little dangerously (you're not really, but it's fun to pretend). yeah yeah, i know all these himalaya studs carry satellite phones and all. but hey, i think all that is overrated too. whatever happened to really puttin' yourself out there and relying on your own skills to get yourself out of any situation you may get yourself into? if you're out there with kids, then maybe i can see havin' a celly (but you can't always rely (apparently) on reception). but as a healthy and supposedly competent adult, why can't you venture out without one? huh?

end of rant. :D
 
bruno said:
aiight! i'll start it up again. who takes cell phones when they're hikin' anyway? isn't the point to get away from all that. it sure is for me. i know, i know, i know--most people say they leave 'em off and all. and maybe they do.
<flamesuit on>
I usually carry one, particularly when solo--normally turned off. I use it very infrequently and only when there was no one else around to annoy.

I recently picked up a light-weight 2M hand-held transceiver (requires a ham license) that I might also carry. Again, it will not be used within the earshot of others.

Most other hikers are totally unaware that I have the above.

I just view the phone and radio as safety gear--they don't work everywhere, but where they do, they can dramatically reduce rescue times and efforts.
<flamesuit off>

Doug
 
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dentonfabrics said:
What is a "litter"?

A Stokes litter is a rigid metal mesh-lined stretcher with basket sides to keep the person from falling out. You are strapped in. The pitches down some mountains can be very steep. The litter never gets vertical but may tilt at a 45* angle. Some come in two pieces, which makes it easier to transport them up the mountain to the victim. They have no cushioning, which would get wet and be hard to keep hygienically clean. SAR volunteers generally donate their own clothing for that. (These people are really dedicated to put their own clothing potentially in "harm's way" if the victim becomes nauseous etc.) Webbing carry straps make it a little easier to carry them but it's awfully hard work. 6 people carry and must rotate frequently to the next team, hence the large number of SAR required for a long carry out. There are more sophisticated versions but the Stokes is standard and virtually bombproof.
 
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Besides 911, what other information would you put on a laminated card in your pack? SAR contact information and/or personal information?
 
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