Windmills getting closer to the Whites - second and third Plymouth-area wind farms

[bikehikeskifish]

Related article from The Union Leader: State rejects Antrim wind project

Tim

 

[Mike P.]

The one's on Wachusett do make a low pitch hum, from a distance not a big deal but from close by or under them, I can see where that would grow old for residents. From a distance on some summits, Greylock, for instance they don't bother me but then I never consider North Adams as a vacation destination. (Plymouth & Cardigan aren't on that list either)

That said, Lincoln, Bartlett, Glen, and much of the ADK High Peaks & BSP I would consider vacation worthy. (maybe I just need to be more than 3 hours from home) Just the name, Saddleback Ridge caused panic as I think that summit may be the best 4,000 summit in ME outside BSP.

Vacationing at the shore, like I do, I wouldn't be bothered by seeing them a few (okay, maybe several) miles off shore. I can't see it effecting vacation rentals much. For the affluent who live there & have the clout to whine about it to those who make decisions..... (Don't cross that line)

If they could come up a 50 -80 foot model that they could line the main highways with, would it ruin your trip on the Mass Pike, 84, 91 or 95 or others in Southern New England? (you could stop in Westfield on the Pike, Portland on 95, Hadley on 91 going North & 8 south at Waterbury (or just beyond). 290 & 495 would be fine all the way except maybe on close to the Cape if you wanted to give beachgoers the same courtesy as mountain vacationers. They's be cheaper to make & you could put a few hundred or more on each highway. (every 1/2 or 1/4 mile)

 

[peakbagger]

Unfortunately for wind, the bigger the better , the current tower heigths on land based wind turbines is the size of the nacelle and blades and the crane required to set them. Its just not practical to haul anything larger over the road. One of big oops on the millsfield NH project was reportedly not building a deep enough base under the access roads to support the loads of the turbines and equipment. Off shore turbines are a different story and they are getting much larger every generation.

The Maine offshore turbines are planned to be located well off the coast out of site of shore. The trade off its more expensive to build floating wind turbines instead of turbines set in rock in shallower areas.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Offshore structures attract fish, and so anglers don't usually object for that reason. Down south, the oil rigs are hammered every day by charter boats. Probably not as attractive off New England as many of the species here are ground fish.

Tim

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

FYI: public hearing for hb580 establishing moratoriums on wind turbine plants and electricity transmission projects. 1 PM on Tue 2/19 in Representatives' Hall in the State House at Concord NH.

Info at nhwindwatch.org. Creag nan drochaid

 

[Trail Bandit]

Let those who are without sins cast the first stones

I was snowmobiling up north this last weekend and one of the places we went was up Dixville Peak as far as they let you with sleds. While we were sitting there talking, I was amazed at how much noise the tower was making. Granted we were only a couple hundred feet from the tower, but it was still much louder than I expected it to be.

I have tried to keep out of the Wind Turbine and Northern Pass debates but I had to comment on a group of snowmobile drivers reporting on the noise from one of the turbines. Snowmobiles pollute and make noise too. (I have noticed that in recent years that the snowmobiles seem quieter but my hearing is getting worse. The snowmobile riders that I encounter in the woods usually slow down, are friendly and usually wave when they pass by. Maybe they are getting older too.) Granted, sdways01 was not complaining, just giving his report.
Almost all of us use electricity from PSNH, etc. The electricity has to come from someplace. Name any possible source of energy that can produce the electricity we all use, and there will be a crowd against it.
Electricity is here to stay and usage per capita and the number of people is growing. There is no free lunch. Before we all get together to block some energy project, we should be ready to at least propose a viable alternative.

 

[Hillwalker]

I have tried to keep out of the Wind Turbine and Northern Pass debates but I had to comment on a group of snowmobile drivers reporting on the noise from one of the turbines. Snowmobiles pollute and make noise too. (I have noticed that in recent years that the snowmobiles seem quieter but my hearing is getting worse. The snowmobile riders that I encounter in the woods usually slow down, are friendly and usually wave when they pass by. Maybe they are getting older too.) Granted, sdways01 was not complaining, just giving his report.
Almost all of us use electricity from PSNH, etc. The electricity has to come from someplace. Name any possible source of energy that can produce the electricity we all use, and there will be a crowd against it.
Electricity is here to stay and usage per capita and the number of people is growing. There is no free lunch. Before we all get together to block some energy project, we should be ready to at least propose a viable alternative.

I tend to sgree with all you said. The newer generation of four stroke and water cooled snow sleds are very quiet and sure don't smell as bad from unburned 2-stroke emissions. I live about 1000 feet from Maine IT82 and IT89 groomed sled trails. I XC ski these trails during the week and the newer sleds are so quiet that they are hard to hear as they come up the trail making it a bit more dicey to share the trails with them. I wouldn't consider trying this during weekends or holidays.

Whenever we (my dog and I) meet sledders they always smile and wave to us while we are stopped and pulled off to the side while they pass. These same groomed trails are legal ATV trails in the summer months, and then I share them while on my MTB with the same mutually respectful results. There are three fairly large windpower projects in the works within about 5 miles from my ridgetop cabin and they bother me not in the least. I will only see one from my ridge. I do feel that they are at least a decade premature.

http://www.patriotrenewables.com/Development.html

 

[Kevin Rooney]

... I do feel that they are at least a decade premature.

http://www.patriotrenewables.com/Development.html

I read an article last week of a study done by the Australians on the cost-benefit of wind power vs. gas vs. coal generation, and IIRC, determined that wind power was more cost-effective - by a reasonable margin - than the two fossil fuels. If I can find the article I'll post the link here. The article was based upon costs in their country.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Article on renewing Wind Energy Credits in Kevin's favorite rag.

 

[Hammerdee]

Last summer, I rode for the first time in several years into Whitefield, NH on Rte. 3. The day was clear and bright and as I gazed north over a field about a mile from the village I was startled to see the Mountain View Grand, a truly grand hotel, dwarfed by a giant wind mill. The Grand was my destination that day. I thought about how that wind turbine marred the view of the resort, but figured the electricity generated must power all the facilities. When I checked in, I asked the front desk clerk how much of the Grand's power came from the wind mill. His answer, "oh - about 1/8," was a shocker. I tried to picture in my mind what eight of those monstrosities would look littering the golf course around the building. It made question whether the power supplied was worth the cost in degradation of the view and the outdoor environment. I came away feeling less positive about the promise of wind power.

 

[RollingRock]

This is a really good thread and I like adding snowmobiles into the conversation. As many have noted, snowmobiles have gotten better when it comes to noise and pollution. This is the result of research, demand [people supporting the industry by buying snowmobiles] and technology.

The same can be said with wind turbines. Yeah...it's not perfect but with the continued support it will. We all know that getting rid of our dependency of fossil fuels is best way forward to protect mother nature and the white mountain national forest.

 

[NH Tramper]

Offshore structures attract fish, and so anglers don't usually object for that reason. Down south, the oil rigs are hammered every day by charter boats. Probably not as attractive off New England as many of the species here are ground fish.

Tim

I wonder if more pelagic species with visit if we had oil rigs in the Gulf of Maine. Not saying I want that (I don't!), just wondering if that was a possibility. I suspect the rigs would attract more bait higher up in the water column in the vicinity of the structures.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Water temperature is the primary dictator of who the pelagic visitors will be, so I don't think we'd get any new species but it might concentrate the usual suspects (bluefish, bluefin, sharks.) Bluefin can regulate their body temps somewhat and hence are the only tuna to venture well up into the Gulf of Maine and Canada.

Tim

 

[summitseeker]

Offshore structures attract fish, and so anglers don't usually object for that reason. Down south, the oil rigs are hammered every day by charter boats. Probably not as attractive off New England as many of the species here are ground fish.

Tim

Many of the productive fishing grounds that hold fish are within the Gulf of Mexico, which is a relatively shallow and featureless expanse. Fish respond to structure in almost any form. Even a few small boards attached by seaweed will hold a small school of tripletail or dolphin (fish, not mammal).

Along the east coast of Florida and Georgia the atlantic still benefit from offshore man made structure but not nearly to the degree as the flat expanses that dominate the Gulf area. Oil rigs are especially productive fishing grounds due to the fact they have vertical striation of cover. This means that at the most shallow level they hold different species from the sub structures and bottom levels which hold far different species.

I can't say I am a proponent of offshore rigs, especially after the BP disaster, but I thought I would add some detail to this comment.

Z

 

[peakbagger]

I have not seen much activity on this thread for awhile. This article on wind farm issues in Maine and their lack of ability to send power to the grid may be of interest

http://www.pressherald.com/news/there-is-a-problem-withwind-power-in-maine_2013-08-04.html

The Millsfield NH wind farm is constrained on a frequent basis by inadequate transmission capability and when the Berlin biomass project goes on line this is going to happen far more frequently. Most expect that the various entities and going to figure out a way of getting the rate payer to make the improvements that are estimated at 400 million. Many expect that the upgrade will be taller transmission lines along the Coos loop which will include the line that already runs roughly parallel to RT 2 immediately north of the Northern Presidentials. So the even though it is unrelated directly to Northern Pass there may be another controversy about new transmission lines in northern NH.

 

[Vermonster]

Also thanks for posting.

There was an interesting item of Northern Pass news this week:

Forest society tells Northern Pass: Hey, we own land under Route 3
By DAVE SOLOMON
New Hampshire Union Leader
Northern Pass partners may think momentum is shifting in their favor after announcing a new route in June for hydroelectric transmission lines through the North Country, but the Society for the Protection of New Hampshire Forests believes it still has an ace up its sleeve.
The society claims it owns the land under Route 3 along the Connecticut River between Pittsburg and Clarksville, where PSNH has proposed burying the 1,200-megawatt power lines intended to carry hydroelectric power from Quebec into New England.
“We own the land that they want to go underground on, and we are not a willing landowner,” said society spokesman Jack Savage. “So it’s unclear to us and our attorneys how they might be able to do this without some entity exercising some form of eminent domain.”
More: http://www.unionleader.com/article/20130801/NEWS05/130809950

This is related to the article Peakbagger posted, and the wind power topic of this thread, because NP's lease agreement with Wagner/Bayroot for the Dixville & Millsfield portion of the route includes an evaluation agreement for a wind project. Wagner/Bayroot had proposed this project several years ago but withdrew the application given the limited capacity on the Coos Loop. As originally proposed, this was a 200MW project, which would would make it one of--if not the--largest terrestrial wind projects in the eastern US.
HVDC lines like NP have been used elsewhere for power transmission from wind projects, it is unclear to what extent this would happen with NP.

The existing NP route passes very close to Rice and Cave Mtns in Dixville and wind test (met) towers for the wind project were placed in close proximity to Blue Ridge, the Crystals, and W. Tucker; all of these are on the NH3K list.

VT

 

[peakbagger]

Speculation is that if the Coos Grid proves to be congested( which it is and will be) that NP will add a substation in the north country that will connect up with the Coos Grid. NP will then become of value to NH residents rather than just a power corridor. In theory, that then will give PSNH access to eminent domain. Then the only thing in the way of the project is the FS superviser's sign off to allow a new special use permit to cross the national forest.

 

[peakbagger]

Rather than start up a new thread, this may be of interest to wind folks

First Wind is a major windfarm developer primarily in Maine with plans for some of the regions largest wind farms on the books. They had run into financial issues sourcing cash for their projects and got involved with a complex ownership structure that was subject to a legal ruling. Rather then waiting for the legal action to end, they went ahead assuming they would win. As of yesterday that was a wrong assumption.

This link is the latest news

http://bangordailynews.com/2014/03/...oval-of-multimillion-dollar-wind-energy-deal/

This link goes into some of the background

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/06/...te-risk-posed-by-legal-appeal/?ref=relatedBox

My very quick summary is

Maine passed a law that said a power company could either generate power or distribute to customers not both. In the past when a power company could do both, they would build power plants whether they needed them or not as being a regulated utility they got paid a fixed return on their investment in the power plant. (Some argue that the PSNH Bow station meets this loophole).

First Wind was a generator, Bangor Hydro, Maine Public Service and Emera are all distributors, therefore they shouldn't be able to generate power to meet the intent of the law. The 2012 deal effectively allowed them to partner with First Wind, thus on the one hand they are generating power and want to get the maximum return on their investment by getting high prices for their power, on the other hand they are supposed to be watching out for the consumers best interest by getting the best deal.

This ruling in theory will delay First Wind in pursuing new wind farms and may force them to put current projects on hold. I dont expect this is the last we will hear of this.