Winter Car Question???

[Bob Kittredge]

My '04 Corolla ($15K) does OK, though I was cheap and didn't spring for the Antilock Brake System that saved my butt in my old Saturn a couple of times. For snowed-in parking lots, the shovel and jug of sand in the trunk have always done the trick.

I just bought an '05 Scion xB ($14K) that does come with ABS and traction control. Weird looking but lots of room (sort of like an Element but smaller and cheaper). I've just on bought my second tank of gas and got 32 mpg. It has front-wheel drive and I don't know how it will do in the snow, but I have hopes.

 

[SherpaKroto]

AWD vs. FWD, it doesn't matter on ice...

Not in agreement here. AWD tends to push the rear around a turn, as all 4 wheels are being "driven". I've been driving on snow and ice for over 30 years (northern NH born and bred), but was very surprised at how my Subaru handled in an icy traffic circle. AWD vehicles try to compensate for the skidding, and you don't have good control out of a skid. I just put mine in neutral and coast thru the icy spots now, but the first time was an eye opener. When it comes to mud or snow, however, it rocks!

 

[TMax]

one more opinion

I have an unlikely pick...I have a Ford Focus (four door wagon) with front wheel drive and studded snows. There have been many times I've driven past lots of other vehicles who couldn't make it in tough winter conditions and there's plenty of room for all my gear. I get a solid 32 MPH. Happy shopping!

 

[linehant]

Another vote for trying new tires first.

I had Nokian M+S on my Passat (manual tranny, 1.8T) and it was pretty much unstoppable in snow up to about 5 inches (after which the under-carriage of the car would start to hang up because of limited ground clearance).

If your Jetta is running strong... I'd be inclined to stick with it. Anything you buy new is going to cost you in terms of sales tax, increased insurance and increased depreciation; at 100,000+ you've already absorbed the significant depreciation on your VW. So, even if you budget a couple of $1000 a year for repairs - shocks, breaks, exhaust... whatever, the "annual cost of ownership" for the Jetta is likely to be less than anything new you might buy.

And no matter which car you end up with, you should STILL consider spending some $$$$$ for snows or M+S tires. They make a big difference - well worth the price.

 

[ChrisB]

Stay away from AWD...

I know that sounds like heresy on this site, but here's why I say that...

I own a 98 Subaru Outback and have driven it 100K miles. I'd guess that 97% of those miles were in clear road condx.

When the snow flies and the mud beckons, this is a great car. In fact, (along with Sherpa K) I drove it to the very base of the trail up Reddington, through deep mud holes, across those rotten bridges, over and around the boulders, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, this relatively small car gets very poor gas mileage for its size and weight. On the order of 22 MPG. And the reason is the inefficiency of AWD. New Outbacks get even worse mileage and the 2005 was reclassified as a truck by Subaru so it did not have to meet mileage requirements for small cars. (Bad corporate thinking there!)

My previous car was a Toyota Turcel wagon with on-demand 4-wheel drive. It performed just as well as the Outback in snow, and the other 95 percent of the time got 30+ MPG in 2-WD mode.

Does anybody make an on-demand 4 WD small wagon any more?

cb

 

[Tramper Al]

New Outbacks get even worse mileage and the 2005 was reclassified as a truck by Subaru so it did not have to meet mileage requirements for small cars. (Bad corporate thinking there!)

I disagree. It's bad government regulations that have left a loophole large enough to drive an SUV through.

 

[ChrisB]

Not Quite...

I disagree. It's bad government regulations that have left a loophole large enough to drive an SUV through.

Al,

True the government has consistently wimped out on this issue in deference to the auto industry lobby. But...

Subaru as a corporation made a decision NOT to improve mileage and to reclassify the Outback as a small truck, not a car, in order to circumvent car mileage guidelines. For a 4-cyl (non-turbo) to get less than 23 MPG in this day and age is stoopid!

For a company that purports to support outdoor causes (Mt Was Obs, etc.), and who's market is partially composed of outdoor enthusiasts, this was a cynical move.

I know it makes me think twice about buying another Outback... that and +$2 a gallon regular gas!

cb

 

[Tramper Al]

DIY traction

Get a pair of studded snows, something like Hakkapalittas, Blizzarks or even the BF Goodrich I get from Costcos will be fine. Here's another consideration that will save time & money - buy a set of rims for the snow tires. The money you spend will be repaid in about 3 tire changeovers, and you won't run the risk of damaging the tire when it's mounted on the rim. It also gives you great flexibility as to when you mount/remove the tires.

Agreed! Once you've got your 2 or 4 dedicated snowtires (on their own steel rims), you can do it yourself. All you need is a jack, a torque wrench, and about a half an hour (for all 4). You can put your snow tires on when you want (even the evening of that first big snowstorm!), and it won't cost a thing.

 

[Tramper Al]

Al,
Subaru as a corporation made a decision NOT to improve mileage and to reclassify the Outback as a small truck, not a car, in order to circumvent car mileage guidelines. For a 4-cyl (non-turbo) to get less than 23 MPG in this day and age is stoopid!

For a company that purports to support outdoor causes (Mt Was Obs, etc.), and who's market is partially composed of outdoor enthusiasts, this was a cynical move.

I'd really like to think that a corporation like Subaru might be so highly motivated by their 'green' customer base. However, leveling the playing field with fair and pregressive emissions and fuel economy regs might be a more reliable incentive for all auto makers. And add another dollar or two of tax on a gallon of gas, while we're at it! Not that it's likely anytime soon.

 

[DougPaul]

One more thing, and this is not meant as a flame or criticism at all, but I have a question about studded tires: somebody told me they cause damage the road.

It is my understanding that studs do damage the surface of the road. But I have also heard that the resulting rougher pavement can be safer for cars using non-studded tires.

I think the stress caused by 18 wheelers (or tandem rigs), logging trucks, etc, cause alot more wear and stress than your VW Golf with studded tires!

The big heavy rigs damage the pavement by flexing it and causing fatigue cracks. Sets the scene for large chunks of pavement to come out and for potholes.

Back on topic: I have a 2002 Subaru Outback wagon--drives well enough on pavement and snow, but its gas mileage is somewhat disappointing. Best in summer: 28mpg, typ in winter ~24mpg (highway).

BTW, winter gas is formulated somewhat differently than summer gas so, all else being equal, it gives a lower gas mileage.

Doug

 

[LarryB]

I have a Subaru and I love it but agree with everyone who suggest trying a good set of snow tires first. If you want a new vehicle maybe check out the Toyota Highlander Hybrid - yes it's an SUV, but not one of the giant ones. It's supposed to get about 30 mpg with a V6 and meet the 'Super Ultra Low Emissions' standard. I'm sure they aren't cheap but at least one of the car companies seems to be listening to 'green' consumers...

 

[Cloudsplitter]

My 2001 VW Golf (yes, that's right, a tiny little VW Golf) weighs in at a measly 2800 pounds, but is a tank in the Adirondacks and Catskills in the winter on a set of Bridgestone Blizzaks. The price of a new Golf is only a shade over $16,000 if you don't mind forgoing leather seats and the like, and I get around 32 mpg on the highway. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that my little car will out perform an all-wheel-drive, but for the money and great fuel economy I couldn't ask for much more...
-C

 

[newjeep123]

I used to think that FWD was good enough to get you through anything winter had to offer. As others have said, put on some good snow tires and you're good to go. I had a Ford Escort with snows that could go just about anywhere, provided the snow was 6 inches or less.
Now that I've moved and I have a dirt driveway, my opinon has changed. To get in my drive with an appreciable amount of snow, or when it's mud season (now), I usually have to put my Jeep into 4WD to get in. And this driveway is not really steep.
The other advantage 4WD gives you is the confidence to go down those logging roads to explore parts unknown. You can get access to a lot more woods with 4WD.
Finally, I am reminded of a quote from someone that I heard a long time ago: "4WD let's you get further into the woods before you get stuck"

 

[lumberzac]

Subaru as a corporation made a decision NOT to improve mileage and to reclassify the Outback as a small truck, not a car, in order to circumvent car mileage guidelines. For a 4-cyl (non-turbo) to get less than 23 MPG in this day and age is stoopid!

Are you sure they are reclassifying the Outback? They are releasing a new vehicle that's bigger than the Outback the B9 Tribeca. http://www.subaru.com/sub/b9/init.html

I'm hoping they will be putting a hybrid on the market soon.