WMNF Parking Pass Extended 10 Years. . .

[Waumbek]

but the good news is that the Ravine Lodge area at Moosilauke will also be de-listed. That's the area on the 118 side of the winter gate that must be used in winter when the gate is closed. The Ravine Lodge road itself inside the gate does not require a pass. I believe the exemptions do not begin until September. De-listing criteria have to do with the presence or absence of "amenities" (bathrooms, etc.) Here's a few other de-listed places, according to Mike Dickerman:

"The so-called Fee Demonstration Project that was initiated on the White Mountain National Forest in the late 1990s is apparently here to stay. As a result of legislation signed into law last December by President Bush, the word "demonstration" has been officially removed from the title and the parking pass fee system is now in place for at least another 10 years.
Under the program, visitors to the WMNF are required to purchase passes to park at designated sites scattered across the region. Single day passes, one-seven day passes, and annual passes are among the passes offered through the program.

The good news for recreationists out there who remain opposed to the parking fees is that WMNF officials have or will be eliminating from the program a number of trailheads where passes were previously required. I won't list all the trailheads and/or other areas on the removal list, but they will apparently include the Hancock Overlook on the Kancamagus Highway (where the Hancock Notch Trail begins), the trailhead parking lot at Kinsman Notch (Route 112) just west of Lost River Reservation, and the Ravine Road trailhead near Dartmouth Outing Club's Ravine Lodge at the base of Mount Moosilauke."

 

[giggy]

This shouldn't be a surprise - when the government gets tax, it rarely stops the tax - thats what this is - a user tax. they can call it what they want - but IMHO -- that is what it is.

while 20 bucks a year is reasonable and it goes to a good cause - I think we tend to forget that as a national forest, the 15-30% of your money that goes to the IRS in each pay check should take care of this. But - its not a perfect world -

man - do I wish we could pick what our taxes went for.

 

[bruno]

just wonderin' (and i'll 'fess up that i don't) how many actually pay the 5 bucks to park on land that is theoretically ours anyway as taxpayers?

 

[Puck]

Is there any profit for the vendor selling these passes? I need to buy one this weekend and would like to support a certain business.

 

[AntlerPeak]

Puck it would be worth the effort to explore this idea. I know for the NorthWest Forest pass if you donate a certain number of trail work hours to the Washington Trails Association you get a free annual pass. Perhaps the AMC should look into how the WTA made this arrangement. I would think there are a lot of hikers out there who would rather "donate" trail work time and get the pass for free. It is a way of being certain your money goes into the trails. Here is a link to verify the free trail pass program is in effect. They ought to be able to do that here as well.
http://www.wta.org/~wta/cgi-bin/wtaweb.pl?6+tt

Do you guys agree this is a better way to get that pass?

 

[David Metsky]

You can get a parking pass for volunteer work here in the Whites. I've done it through the DOC, but I believe you can do it through any of the organizations that maintain trails in the Whites. I don't see it on the AMC website, but I believe you can get one through them.

I don't think stores make any money off the passes, besides maybe a small fee to cover the costs.

-dave-

 

[AntlerPeak]

that's good to know, as it sounds like an attractive option. I did not see anything on AMC's site about it. One would think this is something the organizations would promote. As I said before this is one way hikers can insure where there trail pass "money" goes. also a good option for hikers of modest means we often forget for some twenty bucks is hard to come by.

 

[dave.m]

Time to fire up the mp3 of Utah Phillips (as backed by Ani Difranco)...

"We the American people are enormously wealthy. You know that?

Who owns all of those trees in the national forest?

This is not a rhetorical question. We do!

Who owns all of that offshore oil you read about in the newspaper, huh? We do!

Who owns all of those minerals under the federal land? We do!

It's public property, you know.

But we elect people to go to Washington...

Who are those assholes? What have we gotten ourselves into now?

They go to Washington, they lease off what we own - public property - to private companies, to sell us back our own stuff for the sake of a greasy buck!

That's dumb!"

-- Utah Phillips

Here's my standard link for this issue.
http://www.wildwilderness.org/

 

[WhiteMTHike]

just wonderin' (and i'll 'fess up that i don't) how many actually pay the 5 bucks to park on land that is theoretically ours anyway as taxpayers?

I pay it even though, yes ,I do feel I'm being double-taxed. However, I don't get to the WMNF as often as most you on this board do so I don't complain about it. Besides if the money is going into maintaining the trails then I really don't mind paying extra. I can think of many places where I WOULDN'T want to see my tax money go but National Parks isn't in that category.

My father-in-law bitches all the time (at least the FEW times that I see him) about how part of his tax dollar goes to National Parks. He calls hikers a bunch of "environmentalists wackos". He then tap dances all over me for paying the additonal $5.00 to park at trailheads just so I can hike with the rest of my "tree hugging" friends. See why I go out of my way to avoid family get togethers on my wife's side? wouldn't you?

So if nothing else just to spite this life like Archie Bunker, I'll gladly pay the $5.00 just shove it up his rectum.

I very much like the idea of those doing trail work getting free passes. I think they certainly earn it and I would be willing to help out if I lived closer to the WMNF. To those who do the trail work, keep doing what you're doing. It doesn't go unappreciated.

 

[sierra]

pass

I moved before the parking pass thing really took hold, by that I mean I never bought one and they never enforced the pass untill after I left. Oh well Im back from CO so I do plan on getting one right off, where do they sell them?

 

[Jim lombard]

just wonderin' (and i'll 'fess up that i don't) how many actually pay the 5 bucks to park on land that is theoretically ours anyway as taxpayers?

It's $3 for day use.

Sierra, the list for vendors can be found Here

 

[Puck]

I moved before the parking pass thing really took hold, by that I mean I never bought one and they never enforced the pass untill after I left. Oh well Im back from CO so I do plan on getting one right off, where do they sell them?

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/white/recreation/fee_demo/ This site has a link to a list of vendors. Also you can buy one at most Ranger stations. If paying this bothers you one may consider riding a bike to the trailhead...no wait don't do that. The bears are now stealing bikes

 

[WhiteMTHike]

Here is an order form.

 

[vegematic]

AMC trail adopters and region leaders may have a free annual pass if their trail (or region) originates from a feed trailhead. I think one big reason that AMC does not publicise this is that they do not want people signing up for trail adopting only for the free pass. They want committed trail maintainers.

A WMNF ranger who I work with through some volunteering with AMC and WMNF was very skeptical of the fee program when it first started. She has since reversed her opinion because, according to her, all the money really does stay in the Whites. While a portion of it does go into administering the parking fee program in the Whites, most goes into projects that actually improve services such as trail crews, new privies, etc. IIRC she said that the money collected is a significant part of the WMNF annual budget and is not subject to the whims of Washington D.C. and its funding priorities. This doesn't address the issue of double taxation, but at least the money goes back into the resource that we enjoy using and not into some random government program that we may or may not support.
-vegematic

 

[jrbren]

How long do you think it will be before they say the annual passes are no good on weekends and holidays so you have to buy more expensive versions (like ski passes) for those days ?

 

[NewHampshire]

I bought mine through the mail straight from the Androscogin Ranger district and still paid $20, so I dont think the "private" retailers make any cash.
Brian

 

[sierra]

Thanks for the info, although I do not endorse the pass at all, I do not mind my money going into the Whites, thats the redeeming feature of the pass if there is one.

 

[BrentD22]

Beware of "admin" costs.

Often when I hear the words "a small amount goes to admin costs" I start to wonder. OK how much does the director of the program make? How much does his/her secretary make? How much does the office and computers, and A/C units, and and and cost? It all costs ALOT!

 

[David Metsky]

Here's a link to the 2000 admin costs. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/white/recreation/fee_demo/2000_annual_report/Page_4_charts_fy2000_report.pdf

It's less than 15% of the program. I don't know if that's considered high or low for a program of this size.

-dave-

 

[BrentD22]

It's not the $20...

Very interesting artical about Fee Demo Program on a National Level

another good site with lots of links about fee program