Mt Washington Auto Road-Does it Count?

Retraction

I retract my previous statements and yes, admit that my "interpretation" is probably wrong. Mohamad, Gene and now Steve Smith pretty much agree that it would count. My correspondence with Steve:

Hi Kevin,

Good to hear from you. I didn't write the rules, but it seems clear to me that this "rule" applies only to driving up to a trailhead on the Auto Road and then ascending the mountain from there. I did that last year to redline some trails in the Great Gulf, and even though the ascent was 3200 ft. from the floor of the Gulf it wouldn't count as an "official" ascent. In my interpretation, walking up the Auto Road from the bottom WOULD count as an "official" ascent (private property issues aside). In reading the sentence over, the "auto road rule" could be more concisely defined - something the Committee could take up at its spring meeting.

Good hiking,

Steve Smith

This is good enough for me!

KDT

If you go up a mountain with your heart........the surface doesn't matter.......

A sensible mind usually is a part of that package.........usually.......I met a yoga teacher at Chimney Pond a few years ago. He was going to do the AT from the North......very humble and nice guy but in the conversation it came out that he hadn't really hiked before and he hoped to learn as he hiked........don't know the outcome.......just hope he was a fast learner

Mats Roing said:

He was going to do the AT from the North......very humble and nice guy but in the conversation it came out that he hadn't really hiked before and he hoped to learn as he hiked........don't know the outcome.......just hope he was a fast learner

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Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

There are many anecdotal stories of people doing the AT as newbies. Don't know if anyone keeps statistics on this, or whether there's any way of getting accurate info. If so, it would be interesting to compare completion rates based upon previous levels of hiking experience.

Kevin Rooney said:

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

There are many anecdotal stories of people doing the AT as newbies. Don't know if anyone keeps statistics on this, or whether there's any way of getting accurate info. If so, it would be interesting to compare completion rates based upon previous levels of hiking experience.

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I'll bet that gets discussed on Whiteblaze.net a lot!

I've read that if you want to get a lot of good new gear, you just have to walk the North Bound AT for the first few days!

I think the dropout rate is pretty high, like 80%, no matter who you are!

The estimated statistics can be found on the ATC's Web site:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851143/

I say estimated since not everyone registers at the beginning or end. Also, the people who make it to Katahdin may not have truly "completed" their hike. It could be they skipped some that they may or may not go back to finish. But, it is a rough estimate and the only thing we have to go by. The percentage is increasing. I think partly due to better gear, better information, and trail magic along the way. There are many levels of experience in that mix. A woman I met had basically no experience, decided this was the year and 2 weeks later was on the trail....she finished. Injuries are the biggest reason for people getting off. Well, I could go on and on with this topic so I'll stop here!

Regarding the encounter with the yoga teacher at Chimney Pond I posted earlier - it was pretty funny how we met him and maybe this is a bit off the topic of the thread but it might give some readers a good laugh:

My buddy John and I had done the Knife Edge loop and were enjoying a cool bath in the afternoon sun in the area 1/4 mile southeast of the camping area (swimming not allowed in Chimney Pond). It was a perfect day so to speak. Suddenly on a cliff 100 feet away this bearded dude in a long white robe shows up. John leans over and says: "I'm having a religious experience right now but I didn't expect Jesus to show up!"

dug said:

If I can't use the roads, can I cross over them? Say, from Wamsutta to Nelson Crag? Do I have to hop it? Can I pole volt over it?

Where do the rules dictate that if I'm going to use my own rules, I must clearly differentiate them from the official game. If I'm making up my rules, maybe I want a rule that says nobody can know these are my own rules?

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Anybody remember "Calvinball" from the Calvin and Hobbes comic strip?

I and my colleagues frequently mention Calvinball at work when circumstances throw out one or all the assumptions we had been proceeding under. Of course Calvinball(just like life) doesn't allow any of the other players to disagree with the new rule or rule change. Once it is invoked, it is in effect.

The other important aspect of Calvinball is that you can't do things the same way twice. It's not that the rules can change, it's that they MUST change.

(click for rules)

I sure do miss Calvin and Hobbes. And I'm glad we appear to be coming to a definitive answer on the autoroad.

giggy said:

If you have fun and enjoy yourself -

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Maybe that's not what drives all listbaggers.

There's a road to (almost) the top of Whiteface, closed in winter, and AKAIK illegal for pedestrians in summer. Skiing the road is one of the most fun and enjoyable ways to bag a 46er peak. And, get this, it definitely counts!

Walking the Auto Road

Although it has been pretty well established, let me put this to rest by saying the the prohibition is against driving on the Auto Roads to Washington, Equinox and Mansfield. Walking on them is acceptable subject to the caveats about private property. As noted here (and elsewhere) however, they aren't necessarily a very attractive option. Likewise, there is no prohibition against bushwhacking to 4000-footers (as long as you start from a point that would be considered acceptible for a trailless peak), though it seems unlikely that someone would be bushwhacking on their first trip to a peak with a perfectly good trail.

The rules on the website and in the information packet(s) were originally written by Gene. I have made some changes and additions for clarity, but probably haven't been as good as I could be about keeping the two sources in sync. Although there is certainly work left to be done, I don't think we'll ever have a document that can answer every possible technicality, which is why it's ultimately a matter of personal conscience on some of these finer points.

For the record, the majority of my work for the Four Thousand Footer Committee is making sure that applications are processed in a timely manner, not worrying about how many patches we're selling. I realize that most people here appreciate that so I won't go on except to say that organizing the awards ceremony is a task that was long ago delegated to another member of the committee.

Any constructive comments, questions or suggestions on clarifying the rules are welcome (Roy, I do still have yours on file). Until I can figure out how to fix the amc4000footer.org address, I can be reached at [email protected]

Neil said:

Maybe that's not what drives all listbaggers.

There's a road to (almost) the top of Whiteface, closed in winter, and AKAIK illegal for pedestrians in summer. Skiing the road is one of the most fun and enjoyable ways to bag a 46er peak. And, get this, it definitely counts!

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Is that the one with the elevator to the top? I remember a high pointer (Roy will remember who it was) who proudly mentioned he had bagged that as a high pointer (not as a peak bagger) via elevator.

As for skiing down the Mt. Washington Auto Road (which upon your mention of skiing the Whiteface Road, has now occurred to several folks on this board), I can envision a not-too-pretty scene when the skier, going upwards of 50 MPH, meets the snow cat coming up.

Papa Bear said:

As for skiing down the Mt. Washington Auto Road (which upon your mention of skiing the Whiteface Road, has now occurred to several folks on this board), I can envision a not-too-pretty scene when the skier, going upwards of 50 MPH, meets the snow cat coming up.

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Actually, the Mt Washington auto road is a nice ski run if the snow conditions are good. I've skied the bottom four miles (on wood XC skis with lignostone (compressed, impregnated wood) edges).

Doug

Papa Bear said:

... I can envision a not-too-pretty scene when the skier, going upwards of 50 MPH, meets the snow cat coming up.

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It's even uglier if you're riding a plastic sled ...

Papa Bear said:

I can envision a not-too-pretty scene when the skier, going upwards of 50 MPH, meets the snow cat coming up.

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Or suddenly around a turn the snow is gone.....time to pull out the skateboard! I wouldn't endorse that idea though.........

I think the Washington auto road is much steeper than the Whiteface one. On a good track but with snow falling heavily we averaged just under 20 mph on WF.

FWIW, skiing on the Auto Road is available, but the conditions are very rarely desirable—too much traffic between winter guided tours and Obs and State Park snowcat trips to and from the summit. You really need to hit it after a fresh snow and early in the morning before it gets churned up. Snowshoeing is much more common. Probably not something a lot of VftT readers would do, but plenty of people do.

Also, sledding is not allowed on the Auto Road.

Originally Posted by Papa Bear
... I can envision a not-too-pretty scene when the skier, going upwards of 50 MPH, meets the snow cat coming up.

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then KR:
It's even uglier if you're riding a plastic sled ...

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Gosh, that would be ugly. Good thing our group was going more like 10 mph tops, had our ears open, and were "sledding defensively."


BTW, we sledded the road 7-8 years ago and were unaware that it was not allowed...

Sue