bear charge on Adams

[ADK_jc]

Yes. The entire charge could have been due to the presence of the dog (leashed or unleashed).

Leave the dogs at home!!!

It is SO ANNOYING to encounter some dog on the trail, unleashed, charge at you, jump on you, etc.

Imagine how the bears feel!

 

[Motabobo]

What a wonderful experience...may I be as lucky on my next hike...

Yeah, Timothy Treadwell "got lucky" as well...

 

[DougPaul]

Imagine how the bears feel!

Bears probably view dogs as wolves. They are enemies in the wild.

Herrero also mentions a case where an unleashed dog barked at a mother grizzly with cubs, and ran back to its owner when chased by the mother. The bear then transferred its attack to the human.

Doug

 

[elvios lincoln]

can I see that peer reviewed study?

Yes. The entire charge could have been due to the presence of the dog (leashed or unleashed).

Doug

Not really looking for an argument but I always love reading definitive animal behavior comments like this. I am a scientist at heart and tend to lean toward studies and reports that demonstrate fact. Sorry, but I suspect, had the guy not had his dog, he would have been the target of the un-distracted bear.

Animals, big and little can do pretty strange things when their world changes. I suspect the world is always changing for critters that live near people.

Happy Trails!

 

[DougPaul]

Yes. The entire charge could have been due to the presence of the dog (leashed or unleashed).

Not really looking for an argument but I always love reading definitive animal behavior comments like this. I am a scientist at heart and tend to lean toward studies and reports that demonstrate fact. Sorry, but I suspect, had the guy not had his dog, he would have been the target of the un-distracted bear.

I said that a dog can precipitate a bear attack, not that the dog did precipitate the attack in this particular instance.


Dogs tend to bark at and annoy bears (and bring up the association of wolf attacks), humans tend to avoid unnecessarily annoying bears. Either can precipitate an attack by surprising a mother black bear with cubs (as in this incident), but reports compiled by reliable researchers indicate that attacks are more likely if you have an (untrained) dog. Read Herrero's book.

Doug

 

[SAR-EMT40]

I said that a dog can precipitate a bear attack, not that the dog did precipitate the attack in this particular instance.


Dogs tend to bark at and annoy bears (and bring up the association of wolf attacks), humans tend to avoid unnecessarily annoying bears. Either can precipitate an attack by surprising a mother black bear with cubs (as in this incident), but reports compiled by reliable researchers indicate that attacks are more likely if you have an (untrained) dog. Read Herrero's book.

Doug

Again, I need to agree with Doug on this. The limited reading that I have done on the subject indicates the bears likely view dogs as they would view a wolf. One of the very few threats that a bear has in the wild. That shouldn't be that big a stretch to realize. They feel threatened and the need to protect themselves and obviously their cubs and that process they very likely do precipitate attacks on humans that likely would not have occurred had the dog not been there. Again, this from studies that I have read also.

FWIW,
Keith

 

[dug]

Leave the dogs at home!!!

It is SO ANNOYING to encounter some dog on the trail, unleashed, charge at you, jump on you, etc.

Imagine how the bears feel!

It's been a while since we had a good ole' dog dustup. Ahhh, the memories...

 

[audrey]

It's been a while since we had a good ole' dog dustup. Ahhh, the memories...

Oh, no, I'm not gonna bite, or even bark up that tree! See, Metsky? You trained us well.

 

[David Metsky]

I see nothing. Nothing!

 

[Peakbagr]

Looks like I'm coming in on the tail end of this one.

 

[griffin]

Oh, no, I'm not gonna bite,

Me, either. My dog on the other hand...

Back OT - has anyone here used bear spray? Intentionally, that is. How easy/hard is it to keep accessible without running the risk of accidental discharge?

 

[TrishandAlex]

Back OT - has anyone here used bear spray? Intentionally, that is. How easy/hard is it to keep accessible without running the risk of accidental discharge?

I have almost used pepper spray, though not on a bear.

I came very, very, very close to using it on a man during our highpointing trip this summer.

I've also almost used it on an unleashed, out-of-control, owner-nowhere-in-sight dog on a trail up a 4K in NH.

The pepper spray I carry does not look like pepper spray, it is disguised as something else. I bought it (legally) from a self-defense store on the internet. If you do a search, you will probably find a few stores that carry pepper spray in all sorts of containers. Choose the size/object that best suits you. As a paranoid-for-my-child's-safety mom, I prefer to carry something that a person wouldn't recognize as a threat. This way, if someone wanted to do me/my child harm, he/she wouldn't initially see the spray and try to take it away from me.

I have tested my containers in a small corner of my yard -- they shoot directly, quickly, easily, and the solution is extremely concentrated. There are safety locks which have never, not even once, slipped out of position.

One of my containers is small and hangs easily at my side, along with all my other gear. In the dog-incident, I had it in my hand with the safety off in about one second. In the two-legged aggressor incident, again, I had it in my hand with the safety off pretty darned quickly.

All that being said, most of it has to do with your reaction time. If a bear suddenly runs at you and you don't have any time to react whatsoever, well, you're out of luck. I remember a time when Alex and I heard a crash close to us, and what must have been a moose tore through the woods in the opposite direction. The two of us stood frozen to the spot for a few seconds. By the time I reached for the spray (delayed reaction), the moose was probably a mile away. Not much help having the spray if you stand there like a deer in headlights.

ETA: for black bear purposes, you'll obviously want to choose a container that is on the larger size, so you have enough for a couple of sustained rounds if necessary....and for grizzly purposes, ignore this post altogether.

 

[DougPaul]

I have almost used pepper spray, though not on a bear.

Bear spray is a lot stronger than self-defense pepper spray.
I have no idea how effective self-defense spray would be if used on a bear.

One bear spray (http://www.rei.com/product/722005) has a range of 12-32 ft and empties in 9.2 sec.


BTW, the manufacturers of bear spray also sell practice spray--basically the same thing without the capsaicin.

Doug

 

[TrishandAlex]

Bear spray is a lot stronger than self-defense pepper spray.
I have no idea how effective self-defense spray would be if used on a bear.

One bear spray (http://www.rei.com/product/722005) has a range of 12-32 ft and empties in 9.2 sec.


BTW, the manufacturers of bear spray also sell practice spray--basically the same thing without the capsaicin.

Doug

Good point, thanks, Doug. One of my canisters has a 12 foot range and empties in 4.5 seconds. Not as long/strong as the bear spray in the link above.

 

[sardog1]

Every time someone unfamiliar with dog -- bear interactions presumes to know what is likely in an encounter, I take great pleasure in pointing to this famous example.

And no, it's not merely a single idiosyncratic case -- it's the typical canine response. Been there, seen it, trained to be prepared for it, anticipated it -- for the past 30 years of tramping in the woods day and night with a canine partner/companion, the entire time in bear territory.

 

[Waumbek]

Every time someone unfamiliar with dog -- bear interactions presumes to know what is likely in an encounter, I take great pleasure in pointing to this famous example.

And no, it's not merely a single idiosyncratic case -- it's the typical canine response. Been there, seen it, trained to be prepared for it, anticipated it -- for the past 30 years of tramping in the woods day and night with a canine partner/companion, the entire time in bear territory.

Case in point: a bear killed my neighbor's dog near its home this morning. Nobody saw the attack, just heard it, but judging from the fact that the dog's (fatal) wounds were on the neck only, this dog must have been faced off with the bear. The dog was a 10 year old female, 40-45 lbs., neither aggressive nor overly territorial, everyone thought; judging from the scat size, the bear was a large male, although it could have been a sow with cub.

On the other hand, I weathered a long night in the ADKs in a tent with two dogs while a bear marauded another tent nearby. One of my dogs was feisty, but on this occasion, it simply chose not to hear that bear. Not her problem, apparently.

You just never know.