Beginning winter hiking - which trails to start out on?

[The Unstrung Harp]

Continued thanks to each and every one of you on all the advice. I'm reading and re-reading your posts and gathering bits of insight from all the discussion and developing increasing amounts of respect for the VFTT community.

Bro, I've been wondering where you've been! Carters, I see! Love the Carters. And yes please, it'd be great to hike with you again, we need to catch up plus I need to show off some new snowshoes to someone who will appropriately appreciate them.

Doug, good to know about Ike/drifts. I like to think I'd be keen to such things but that's precisely the kind of thing I might, in my n00bness, underestimate.

Jake, sounds like a rather derisive though valid argument. I don't remember the chimney being something to be scared of though I wasn't there when it was covered in ice. I can't imagine it'd get too bad but I'll bet there are times when it's better than others.

 

[The Unstrung Harp]

Cardigan, Pierce, Liberty, also Carter Notch, all sounding like place I need to head to, soon. Tremont sounds cool too, plus I've never been there.

Old Speck has always been anticlimactic to me but I think in winter it might be able to redeem itself.

 

[Tom Rankin]

This is re: the phone altimeter apps? Really? I mistakenly thought that they were keyed to GPS, not barometer readings. This would explain why Ten Mile Hill in Sherman, CT, right at 1000' at its summit, was reading more like 1075'. That threw me for a loop - didn't think the USGS would be that far off.

The app [Back country Navigator] told me what it thought was the elevation, and it agreed well with my altimeter. How exactly it did that, I do not know... But it would seem that if a tool can fix your location, your elevation should be implied.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Jake, sounds like a rather derisive though valid argument. I don't remember the chimney being something to be scared of though I wasn't there when it was covered in ice. I can't imagine it'd get too bad but I'll bet there are times when it's better than others.

I was not scared of the 'new' chimney either, but I must note the current conditions for those who have not been there for a while. The old Chimney, which I climbed in Summer, is a lot higher than 12 feet, and is a straight up/down rock scramble. The new chimney, which has been forged by people hesitant to do the true chimney, is just to one side of the old. It is somewhat milder, but those who are not really tall/athletic might find it challenging if it is covered over in ice. There are a few places where you can not just hang on to the the trees, because they have been stripped out. The only other alternative would be to wrestle your way into the thickly covered trees, and fight your way thru to the bottom. But this just contributes to the erosion that is already pretty bad.

 

[The Unstrung Harp]

Tom, thanks for the clarity. I have no plans to head back to Osceolas. The whole trail, not just the chimney, was in rough shape last time I was there with lots of erosion/overuse and I decided it wasn't a place I would return, even in winter. Let the 4k peakbaggers have it.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Chimney Bypass

Chimney

Sorry, no winter photos. I've heard that there is a through-the-woods bypass of the the bypass, to the right if you are looking up.

Tim

 

[Dave Bear]

You will be delighted to find that winter conditions and packed out trails hide a lot of the sins of overuse on the trail and erosion. For example, Liberty Spring Trail is a rock fest in the summer but great in the winter. The chimney can be great or it can be rough on Osceolas. My first time out I climbed it and checked it for snags on way to Osceola and butt slid back down through it on the way back. Other times it did not look so friendly but certainly not scary! The most dangerous areas in winter on Osceolas are usually the side toward the Kanc if you are glissading fast including the slide on your exit. When I took my adult daughter up there she preferred crampons and taking it easy while I took the faster glissade.

 

[Dave Bear]

Nice photos Tim, family and perspective! I by-passed the by-pass with my pooch in the fall because he can be rough on his pads on rock scrambles and did not find a hint of anything in the woods there.

 

[cushetunk]

Wise for you to realize many threads become armchair debates on forums but wiser to realize what you want for skills, tools and your hiking experience because you are the one who will benefit on the trail and the armchairs will still be right where they are.

Dave Bear, my armchair and I don't disagree about the value of an altimeter for an experienced traveler in those extended above treeline situations.

It's just that I'd place different priorities on what is an important all-around winter skill set. Learning to deal with the basics of layers and food and dealing with the cold and just learning to be absolutely confident in the winter woods are all far more important to deal with first. Compass navigation and map reading are way up there in my book, too.

But I gotta stand (or sit comfy?) by my suggestion that new winter hikers don't need altimeters. They need to use some common sense and apply some basic winter judgement to stay out of situations that would require an altimeter.

And, I love winter! It's my favorite season for the outdoors. Hope you enjoy it, Unstrung!

 

[JCarter]

I love winter in the Whites, and appreciate all the great advice this thread has generated. Both on fun and on safety (I've found VFTTers to be a wonderfully, usefully paranoid bunch.) I haven't been doing this long enough to offer more than I get, but I want to throw one thing out there.

I tell my Scouts a little story about the source of good judgment. The short version is that good judgement comes from experience -- experience comes from bad judgement.

The trick is of course to make sure your bad judgement isn't really, really, bad.

I didn't consider myself an experienced winter hiker until after about the 3rd trip report labeled "Mt xxx (attempt)". I'm probably not really, but I'm closer. Whatever hikes you decide on, you have to be willing to admit when you misjudged the conditions or the preparation, and get out. Chose hiking partners who will agree up front that getting back to the trailhead is always more important than the summit, and that always stick together -- if one of you wants to abandon, everyone turns back together.

Above treeline is no joke. But with the right equipment, the right preparation, and the right weather, it is totally awesome. When the weather is less than ideal, there are plenty of trails in New England that don't have the exposure, but still have great views and fun walks.

Personal opinion -- by the time an altimeter tells you that you've dropped into the Lafayette Brook drainage, it's way too late. And you probably tripped over a rock because you weren't watching your feet.

 

[RoySwkr]

My Gf is 5'8 and she's almost at the top... sure looks 12-15' to me.

Depending on whether you call the slabs above and below part of the chimney, everybody is correct about the height

I have seen it in winter where both the chimney and bypass were iced over so badly that I declined to try either one lacking full crampons and a belay, and the trees were sufficiently thick that even I decided not to bushwhack around - if bare and dry no harder than summer and I have been up several times like that including before the bypass was built

The East Osceola slide is pretty well grown over and the gully higher up is not as bad as Pinnacle Gully in Huntingtons but the upshot is this - Osceolas can be climbed in winter but in many conditions are not the mellow trip I would recommend for a winter beginner solo - something I would also say about the cone on Jackson

 

[RoySwkr]

It's just that I'd place different priorities on what is an important all-around winter skill set. Learning to deal with the basics of layers and food and dealing with the cold and just learning to be absolutely confident in the winter woods are all far more important to deal with first. Compass navigation and map reading are way up there in my book, too.

But I gotta stand (or sit comfy?) by my suggestion that new winter hikers don't need altimeters. They need to use some common sense and apply some basic winter judgement to stay out of situations that would require an altimeter.

On a typical 4k winter hike, I don't use an altimeter, GPS, compass, or even a map - I know where I'm going and don't really need them. I will have the compass and map in my pack but probably not the other 2.

On the other hand, knowing how to use them - in reverse order listed - is more valuable as you get into more complex situations and I would encourage everyone to do so, but easier when it's warm enough to not need mittens

 

[nartreb]

I don't even own an altimeter, but a compass and map are crucial even when you hope to stick to the trail. Here's an illustration of winter conditions on a very popular trail, part of the A.T.:

In summer, that blaze is at eye level.

 

[Tom Rankin]

On a typical 4k winter hike, I don't use an altimeter, GPS, compass, or even a map - I know where I'm going and don't really need them. I will have the compass and map in my pack but probably not the other 2.

On the other hand, knowing how to use them - in reverse order listed - is more valuable as you get into more complex situations and I would encourage everyone to do so, but easier when it's warm enough to not need mittens

All of these devices can be quickly available on your wrist, if one $o de$ire$!

 

[marty]

Since the OP is from Maine, I thought I would point out a couple of easy, yet rewarding hikes in the western part of the state:

Bald Mountain in Oquossoc is a very nice 2.6 mile RT snowshoe hike. The snow smooths out the ledges nicely and it is usually packed out. Views are spectacular from the summit area and tower. Highly recommended.

Bald Mountain just south of Weld (Route 156) would seem like an amazing snowshoe hike, although I admittedly have not done it in winter. It is three miles RT and a steady, but not daunting climb. There is a risk of ice on the open ledges, but my guess is that it will have a sufficient snow cover.

Feel free to PM me for more information and directions.

Regards,
Marty

 

[Tom Rankin]

Since the OP is from Maine,

In that case, let us know when Old Speck is broken out!

 

[Dave Bear]

Unstrung, sorry that this has become a debate about the validity of the use of an altimeter. The original question of this thread was about trails and in a later post Unstrung asked about navigational tools. I never said that an altimeter was required! It is a valid tool that I like to use and gave reasons why! Anyone who has some sort of navigational experience will know that things can put you off course. Wind affect does happen on land and in poor or no visibility it is difficult to hold an accurate bearing without a sighted destination. You need not be on the water or in the air for your true track to differ from your intended bearing! As individuals we often have a tendency to track uphill or downhill. If your you lose visibility you should be on your tools and your game long before you track into a drainage, my opinion! I chose a long time ago to be equipped with tools that do not require a battery to be ready if I need them. Call it old school if you like but I find it best to know the basics before graduating to something like a GPS. In a time I was completely surrounded by folks following electronic bearings I was schooling myself in woods navigation under good and bad conditions. I love being out in the cold of winter solo and traveling during day or night, have done much of it and have no regrets for being the wiser from it. There have been times I was out in the middle of the night during a storm doing a two mile bushwhack that is not a herd path. My type of fun! Anyone that says they are absolutely confident in their ability in the woods is treading dangerously. I still consider myself new at this. I aim to learn something new every day of my life! Nature, as beautiful as it is, has no more conscience than a wolverine and will bite you if you are not careful. The OP never asked whether common sense were a requirement because that is a given. All of the skill sets we learn in winter are a requirement if you play hard out there. Whether it be how you dress, how you pack, how you refuel, how you start a fire or how you navigate, many things can affect the outcome of your hike and how you come home! There is no ordained hierarchy of advice the hiking community can give their trail fellows and anyone saying they know it all has not yet experienced it all! We can all give valid advice without someone coming along and saying, "Don't listen to that! I'm telling you all you need to know!" If that's what motivates this community I'm disappointed in what we have evolved into! Ciao!

 

[The Unstrung Harp]

No need to apologize on behalf of anyone, DaveBear. I am gaining much knowledge (or losing some ignorance?) by watching the discussion unfold as it will. Such unfolding of related tangents are the nature and value of discussion, no?

Everyone's point of view comes from something. It's all good. Keep it coming. Sorry to not reply to each and everyone directly - I'm a bit behind right now in various facets - but I am reading and appreciating.

 

[sierra]

On a typical 4k winter hike, I don't use an altimeter, GPS, compass, or even a map - I know where I'm going and don't really need them. I will have the compass and map in my pack but probably not the other 2.

On the other hand, knowing how to use them - in reverse order listed - is more valuable as you get into more complex situations and I would encourage everyone to do so, but easier when it's warm enough to not need mittens

I always carry a compass, but its been 20 yrs since Ive carried a map in the Whites. Quite frankly no matter where I was I could navigate without one.

 

[Dave Bear]

Love your open-minded positive attitude Unstrung! Will take you far on any journey!

Regarding Tremont, big bang for the buck in fall. May not be tracked out much in winter. Over twenty five switchbacks which feels like more! Awesome little open summit with great views across the Pemi! The path up is in a sheltered, ie. not much sun, ravine alongside a nice brook at the start. Could have leeside snow before you top out!