Dog bit on South Tripyramid

[gforce]

Has this happened to you? And how did you react?

Got bit by a unleashed dog on top of South pyramid! Didn't break the skin but painful. The owner(s) (group of 5 or 6) scolded the dog but didn't offer an apology to me.

I didn't really know how to react. There was no blood so I basically kept going. It didn't help when the kids in the group started laughing as I passed. I have to admit I did swear but it was mostly out of shock as the dog clamped on to me.

Later I saw a blatently out of bounds campsite of 3 large tents sandwiched between the trail and the brook on the tripyramid loop after the south slide. I mean right off the trail! I suspect it was possibly the dog walkers camp. Oh well what can you do...

Glenn - gforce

 

[David Metsky]

<mod hat, preliminary strike>
This board is not the place to rant about dogs and/or bad dog owners. Please keep the discussion focused on suggested courses of action.

This also isn't much of a trip report so I'm going to move this to the Q&A section.

-dave-
</mh, ps>

 

[dvbl]

Perhaps I can save us all some time...

The dog haters will respond that you should've gone Rambo on the dog and his owners, and that no dogs should ever be on trails.

The dog lovers will respond that you must have done something to provoke this gentle creature of the Earth, and if you knew how to read the signals properly, you could've instead had the dog licking your face in no time.

The majority will respond that this sucks, it's rare, but it still sucks, and dogs should be allowed on the trail, but only under total command of owner, etc.

At about post 27, someone will go over the line and the thread will get locked, just like every other contentious dog thread.

 

[gforce]

oops. I didn't mean for it to be a rant. I should have realized there must be a history of these types of posts. I am a dog lover by the way. I was just wondering what I should have done? Asked to see the owners ID? Anyway I didn't mean to start a string of contentious posts.


Glenn

 

[MadRiver]

I would have informed the owner that as soon as I got cell service I would report the “attack” to the proper authorities (Animal control officer) and to allow them to determine what action if any is warranted. In this manner, you are not threatening physical action to the owner or the dog. You are simply reporting an attack to the proper authorities.

Statute

 

[griffin]

I hike with my dog, and I can't imagine being that rude to someone. They should have bent over backwards making sure you were ok, and apologizing.

I think both the dog owners and the out-of-bounds campsite could have been reported (whether or not they were related). If the dog HAD drawn blood, you could have asked for id and proof the dog was up-to-date on it's vaccinations. You could have asked for that anyway, but I don't know if it's worth the risk of a confrontation when you're that outnumbered. I think you would have been well within your rights to tell them off, but again, you always have to decide if it's worth it and we don't always think of these things in the moment.

Personally, had I been in your shoes, I probably would, like you, have said nothing and kept moving, but then spent the rest of the hike thinking of dozens of brilliant things I should have said, from the civil "if you can't control your dog, you shouldn't hike with him/her off leash" to the slightly less so (to the laughing rugrat): "how about I bite YOU and we see if it's still funny"

 

[albee]

...didn't offer an apology to me.

You know, stuff like this happens, we can't always control it, and generally it is not a big deal, but the one basic courtesy that everyone should have is to at least have the sympathy and decency to apologize for what happened. The words might not make you physically feel better, but you can at least respect the owner if they offer a sincere apology. Otherwise, they are just living in "their world" and not taking responsibility for how their actions have affected somebody else's hike.

This kind of thing is right up there with drivers not using their turn signals at intersections and people not returning a greeting on the trail. Common courtesy can make everyone's lives so much more pleasant. And if you don't get that courtesy, it almost always feels good to vent about it later.

 

[giggy]

I would have lashed out on the owners, esp if my 2 year old was with me.

- though natural reaction might have been to kick or smack the dog - not going "rambo", but just a natural defense action, not saying its right, but...


if what you say is true, the owners showed bad form. If that was me and my dog, I would have at the very least apologized, and offered to buy you dinner or something.

Its not the dogs fault, it the owners for being selfish and taking a dog that bites on a publictrail.

 

[griffin]

Having worked with reactive and even aggressive dogs, I would suggest NOT trying to kick or hit the dog. Not out of concern for the dog, but because it's a good way to get yourself bitten AGAIN, because as far as the dog's concerned you just proved that you're a threat (again, this isn't about right/wrong, or "be nice to dogs" - its about your own safety).

 

[Maddy]

Has this happened to you? And how did you react?

Got bit by a unleashed dog on top of South pyramid! Didn't break the skin but painful.
Glenn - gforce

One thing comes to mind about this incident.
I have had several dogs that are very "mouthy". My present Akita is one of those. She tends to want to "mouth" people as her greeting.
My vet once told me when she did it to him that dogs who do this do not give "doggie lick kisses" and Kodi never does. My Teddy never gave dog "kisses' either.
I don't encourage this behavior but just the other night she got me good. Didn't draw blood but it did hurt. She was ecstatic when I came home and this was her greeting. Bernie never does this but he loves to give big kisses.
Could you tell if this dog was just in a playful mood or did he bar his teeth, bark, growl or show any other signs of aggression prior to "biting" you? Was he one of those small nippy types or a good size fella?
I think you did the right thing by just walking away. If he had drawn blood some towns require that the dog be "quarantined" in case the pooch if rabid. I might have been tempted to report the illegal campsite and the dog to the Forest Service, especially if you felt that the bite was a result of aggression. I would not however tell him that his was my intent.
Sorry you got bit!

 

[sjhbos]

When on the trail, if a dog closes its teeth around you, how do you know if you have been "mouthed" by this dog or if you have been bitten. Sometimes the dog owner will assure you that their dog is being playful with me but with the jaws clamped on my arm or wrist it sometimes feels less playful from my perspective.

Agree with Albee that when stuff like this happens on the trail it always nice to get an apology and then move on (rather than have the dog owners kids laughing about the incident). Tripramid is a nice hike and I hope it did not detract from the day too much.

 

[Maddy]

When on the trail, if a dog closes its teeth around you, how do you know if you have been "mouthed" by this dog or if you have been bitten. Sometimes the dog owner will assure you that their dog is being playful with me but with the jaws clamped on my arm or wrist it sometimes feels less playful from my perspective.
.

Unfortunately, that is the problem when one is approached by a "mouthy" pup. A responsible owner would step in right away and try to put people who don't know the dog at ease, but unfortunately this character did not much of anything.
I think in most cases, a dog that is really going to bite you exhibits other behaviors as he prepares to sink his teeth into your arm or leg.
Age is also a factor. Young pups will sink their teeth into most anything.If this is tolerated by the owner, they soon become big pups who sink their teeth into anything. Some end up euthanized because they were never taught to behave properly.
Until my vet explained the difference, I thought both Teddy and Kodi might be trying to bite me. Dog "language" is not always the easiest thing to understand.
This is one of the reasons why owners need to step up to the plate and behave in a responsible way. A trail is not the ideal setting for a crash course.

 

[TCD]

You know, dogs are fine. They're animals, sometimes it's hard to predict them, but you have to love 'em anyway.

(I've had similar things happen a couple times. I still get down on the ground and play with dogs when I meet them.)

But what struck me from the initial post was nothing to do with the dog. It was the kids laughing. That was the real indicator of a problem group. People who raise their kids to think that someone else getting hurt is funny. Sick, and very sad.

This thread is about suggested courses of action. But conversation with folks like that is probably a waste of time. I think you did the right thing by just walking on.

TCD

 

[sjhbos]

OK, Thanks for explaining. I would also think that if you are mouthed that the dog is very unlikely to break the skin while this may not be the case with a bite.

 

[1ADAM12]

I will add my 2 cents as well. I am a dog owner as well but when I hike in a populated area my dog is leashed as he does not seem to like "other" dogs. Plus they should be leashed as all times anyways.

I think you did the right thing by walking away. Sounds like if you had said something they might have lashed out at you as well. I do think I would have called the proper authorities especially about the tent site. I am glad you were not seriously injured and hope this did not take away from your hiking expierence.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

I must admit that I have been very upset ever since I first read this report. One bad person or one bad dog can make things bad for many others. I’m very sorry you didn’t get the apology you deserved. Poor and inconsiderate dog handlers make everything so much more difficult for the rest of us out there.

 

[MadRiver]

I was chatting with the ranger at the Pemi station for another matter and mentioned your incident. She suggested that you contact the local police to fill out a report. She also suggested that you call (603) 536-1315 to report any illegal camping.

 

[smitty77]

I must admit that I have been very upset ever since I first read this report. One bad person or one bad dog can make things bad for many others. I’m very sorry you didn’t get the apology you deserved. Poor and inconsiderate dog handlers make everything so much more difficult for the rest of us out there.

I agree whole-heartedly. I've come across a few "dog haters" on the trail, one of which gave me a verbal lashing that dogs shouldn't be allowed on the mountain. All the while my leashed pup was sitting calmly by my side, off of the trail to let this individual pass. As a few other here can vouch, rarely is she calm or sitting, but this time she was a gem. My only guess is this person had a past encounter like gforce's.

As others have mentioned I'm really suprised at the reaction, or lack thereof, from the dog's owner. I would have apologized profusely, kissed the ground you walk on, taken your phone number and address (to mail you proof of my dog's rabies vac), and prayed like hell that I didn't get sued. Apparently the owner of this dog has no idea how easily you would win a lawsuit against him had the dog broken the skin. Some insurance companies deny home-owners coverage when you own a breed that "is known to bite" or be aggressive because the risk is too high. (Let's not get into why this isn't fair, all dogs can be agressive, etc. It is what it is.) Even though it is after the fact, I would file a report about the incident on the off chance that dog bites someone else on the trail. I hate seeing dogs get put down because of reckless owners, but I hate people getting hurt even more.

Sorry about your incident. Many of us with hiker-dogs do our best to ensure we don't spoil someone else's hike.

Smitty

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Sorry to hear you were bitten.

Unfortunately, even the sweetest, most even-tempered dog will bite under the right circumstances (am not suggesting in any way the dog in this incident was either sweet or even-tempered).

I often hike with a Newf (Brutus), one of the most low-keyed dog breeds on the planet. Yet, on two occasions I've seen him growl as a startle/fear response. The first was when he was a juvenile (about 11 months) and my wife & I had hiked a short distance south on the LT from Lincoln Gap to the spot overlooking Lake Champlain. He didn't notice a fellow sitting very quietly about 50' away who, after about 10 minutes, stood up. He startled Brutus, who gave a low growl and backed-up quickly. The second time was a few years later - we were moving quickly along the Twinway between S. Twin and headed for Guyot when around the corner came 2 little twin boys, maybe 5 years old, dressed in bright red fleece jackets, followed by their Dad. Brutus had never seen 2 little guys dressed in red fleece and quickly pulled back and gave a low growl in warning. It was so uncharacteristic because most Newfs regard it as their life mission to sit on your feet to await being petted and admired, but ... you (the responsible dog owner) have to be ever vigilant because under the right circumstances anyone, including your dog, can be startled and go on alert.

One final point - not all careless dog owners are lowlifes. I've met a few otherwise respectable people while hiking who refuse, even on request, to restrain their dogs. I won't mention names, but one or two in that category are public figures.

 

[dvbl]

...Some insurance companies deny home-owners coverage when you own a breed that "is known to bite" or be aggressive because the risk is too high. (Let's not get into why this isn't fair, all dogs can be agressive, etc. It is what it is.)...

It's perfectly fair. Talk to any insurance actuary and he'll tell you why in excruciating mathematical detail.

Tough call for gforce to have to make. On the one hand, you're dying to teach the punks a lesson they've probably had coming for a while. On the other hand, you want to take the high road and not make a bad situation worse. No easy answer. Thumbs up to gforce for keeping his cool.