In praise of environmental progress

[dr_wu002]

These anecdotes, in general are nice, and I support them purely from an emotional standpoint: I like nature, I'd like to see it protected. And if we as fellow citizens can't protect nature on our own, I guess the next worst thing is for the government (Federal, State, Local) to protect it from us.

This is a hiking website and I'm guessing most people really dig nature here. But I'm willing to bet that probably a majority of the people around the country would not or do not support these measures for a variety of reasons. They could argue that saving a particular plant or animal from extinction or a river from poisoning stands in the way of job growth, resources for human consumption (coal, oil) which keeps prices high, higher taxes to fund these measures and manage these areas etc. Also, ownership, private property, land use etc are all now and have been in America hot button topics. One thing I took from watching an episode or two of Ken Burn's National Parks thing is how important in the 1800's the concept of private property, land use, resources was even compared to now.... the thought of having an "overreaching federal government" that would in a sense seize these lands from public consumption and set them aside for conservation and (limited) recreation -- kind of a given now -- was more abhorrent then to a lot more people.

In these cases of cleaning up rivers, saving animals etc you can probably successfully argue that higher taxes, some loss of growth etc occur to be able to do this stuff. Others would claim that view to be short-sited and that in the long term by using sustainable methods, keeping things cleaner, protecting the environment we end up saving in the long term. I'm not an economist but I am interested in how this all works. My heart loves the environment and all the animals and crap like that and the mind part of me wants to see that whatever measures are put in place to protect it are intelligent and reasonably economic as well.

-Dr. Wu

 

[DougPaul]

In these cases of cleaning up rivers, saving animals etc you can probably successfully argue that higher taxes, some loss of growth etc occur to be able to do this stuff. Others would claim that view to be short-sited and that in the long term by using sustainable methods, keeping things cleaner, protecting the environment we end up saving in the long term. I'm not an economist but I am interested in how this all works. My heart loves the environment and all the animals and crap like that and the mind part of me wants to see that whatever measures are put in place to protect it are intelligent and reasonably economic as well.

One should note that cleaning up an area (or just keeping it natural) can have economic value. One obvious value would be increased tourism. Another might be sustainably extracted forest products. In Africa, for instance, survival of lions (which can kill livestock and are in turn killed by herders) etc often hinges on making the animal in question economically valuable to the locals. The Ken Burns film also gave an example of Glacier Bay NP--the locals initially fought it tooth and nail but now are reaping the tourism dollars, are happy that it is there, and would like to see it expanded.

And, of course, the natural ecosystem provides us with drinking water and oxygen to breath. The avoided costs of not having to "manufacture" them are enormous.

Doug

 

[sardog1]

The title and the spirit of this thread is "In praise of environmental progress." In other words, it's a celebration, not intended to be a debate forum. There are lots of debate fora available, and you can easily start your own as well if you wish. Please respect the intent here.

 

[Grumpy]

The title and the spirit of this thread is "In praise of environmental progress." In other words, it's a celebration, not intended to be a debate forum. There are lots of debate fora available, and you can easily start your own as well if you wish. Please respect the intent here.

Well said.

In that spirit, I applaud and celebrate the recovery of bird species like the bald eagle, the osprey, and the herons. All give me hope that we humans can help put things right after we have fouled them up.

G.