Rescuers fear "Yuppie 911"

[ALGonquin Bob]

That's true in a controlled and closely monitored situaton such as a race event. Practically speaking though, if I'm 500 miles from home and press what SPOT calls the "Ask for Help" button, and my wife, daughter, or friend receive that e-mail message, they will not be hopping in the car to go find me. They will, in all liklihood, call the DEC or their local 911 center and ask them to help me, triggering the same response as a 911 call. In most situations like that, which is probably the most likely scenario for SPOT users, there is no practical difference between those 2 buttons, except that using the "911" button will result in the responders receiving the call for assistance sooner.

NOTE: In situations where your "Ask for Help" contacts live close to where you happen to be, your friends/family might actually come looking for you, but I don't think that scenario is the norm.

 

[Billy]

I'm not at all surprised by this. I live in a neighborhood filled with YUPPIES. I can tell you that YUPPIES are the most self-centered and egotistical people around. Most see themselves as invincible and posses a hige sense of entitlement. Doesn't this article prove that?

YUPPIE hiking plan:

1. Go hiking.

2. Don't bother to learn how to use a compass.

3. Terrain maps? What are those?

4. Hiking guidebooks? Never heard of them. What is this AMC you speak of?

5. Big enough backpack? I don’t want to break a sweat.

6. Survival skills? Who needs those? Won't I find a Starbuck's on the trail?

Last but not least...

If I get into trouble I will just press the button on my Nuevo riche device. BTW, I got one before my neighbors did. I'll be the talk of the subdivision.

After I press my button rescue crews will come to rescue me. After all, they owe it to me.
====================================================
Pathetic. These people should just stay home.

"I know that this is vitriol. No solution, spleen-venting.
But I feel better having screamed. Don't you?"

-Ignoreland
R.E.M.

 

[--M.]

Does "Nuevo riche" mean that their French money is part Spanish?

 

[Nessmuk]

That's true in a controlled and closely monitored situaton such as a race event. Practically speaking though, if I'm 500 miles from home and press what SPOT calls the "Ask for Help" button, and my wife, daughter, or friend receive that e-mail message, they will not be hopping in the car to go find me. They will, in all liklihood, call the DEC or their local 911 center and ask them to help me, triggering the same response as a 911 call.

That is only true if your wife, daughter, or friend is actively and constantly monitoring the email for the "help" message. It is sent out the same way as the "I am OK" message, but it just has a different tag and could go to different preset recipients of your choice. The "911" message is monitored 24/7 from an agreement with SPOT and it triggers an immediate automatic rescue response from the proper authorities for the area you are in.

By the way, the Y1000 is billed as an unsupported race event. There are no race sponsored safety boats or mechanisms for assistance once the race has begun. Race officials made it clear that it was up to us individually to provide contingencies for any "help" messages, assistance would not be sent as a result of any monitoring or control by race officials. It was very likely that any assistance we expected could be up to 500 miles away upon sending of the message. Alerting of the authorities by our ground crew for immediate serious assistance in a non-life threatening situation as a result of the "help" button, if we were only saying we are pulling out of the race at the next accessible village, might well have resulted in a hefty bill or fine. True emergencies are a different story, hence the reason for the different message buttons on SPOT.

 

[bristlecone]

it was up to us and our ground crew to figure out a procedure if we had sent the non-life threatening help message - most likely meaning we were terminating the race but could continue to the next river village under our own power - which might still be a couple of hundred miles away.

That's the first use for the 'help' button that I've heard that makes any sense to me. I have always thought, either I am making my way out slowly, or hunkering down and heading out the morning, so 'OK,' or can't get out unassisted, so '911.' So I still don't have a use for 'help,' but it seems to have a use in certain cases.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

Uses for the "Help" button

Since the message generated by pressing the "Please Send Help" button can be predetermined and customized by the user before the trip, that "Help" button could be used to let someone know that you're ready to be picked up, and the GPS info will let them know where you are. Of course, the friend would have to be monitoring e-mail for a timely response. I believe that a text message can also be sent, but I have no idea how that stuff works.

 

[Nessmuk]

se, the friend would have to be monitoring e-mail for a timely response. I believe that a text message can also be sent, but I have no idea how that stuff works.

It's only a preset text message, short messages you set into your SPOT account on the website ahead of time that will be sent with the "OK" message and a different text to be sent with the "Help" message. That fixed text will appear in the email that is sent to your pre-determined recipients upon activation of either the "OK" or "Help" signal (could be different sets of preset recipients). You cannot change or send any other meaningful text from the field.

 

[dentonfabrics]

...and lets all keep in mind that SPOT is very unreliable under cover of a think canopy of trees. I'm sure it's everything it's supposed to be while it's on water, and I'll bet it works well out west where the tree cover isn't as dense, but if you send an alert from a random point on a random White Mtn trail, there's a good chance it's not going to get thru.

My wife bought me a SPOT because most mornings when I leave the house to go north, I dont know where I'm hiking until I get there. The SPOT can help pinpoint the last known location of my truck (because it works well on the roads and hiways) but once I carry SPOT into the woods, only a very small per centages of the signals get picked up.

bob

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

...and lets all keep in mind that SPOT is very unreliable under cover of a think canopy of trees. I'm sure it's everything it's supposed to be while it's on water, and I'll bet it works well out west where the tree cover isn't as dense, but if you send an alert from a random point on a random White Mtn trail, there's a good chance it's not going to get thru.

My wife bought me a SPOT because most mornings when I leave the house to go north, I dont know where I'm hiking until I get there. The SPOT can help pinpoint the last known location of my truck (because it works well on the roads and hiways) but once I carry SPOT into the woods, only a very small per centages of the signals get picked up.

bob

Same deal with most handheld GPS receivers, eh? If the user is mobile, they just amble (or crawl) to an open spot in the forest canopy.

 

[Nessmuk]

...and lets all keep in mind that SPOT is very unreliable under cover of a think canopy of trees. I'm sure it's everything it's supposed to be while it's on water, and I'll bet it works well out west where the tree cover isn't as dense, but if you send an alert from a random point on a random White Mtn trail, there's a good chance it's not going to get thru.

I will briefly mention a huge controversy that came up over this on the Y1K. We were required to press the "OK" button at the beginning and end of our mandatory 6 hour night rest stop to prove we actually stopped. Many of those messages did not get through, and according to the rules a time penalty was to have been assessed. Due to the large accumulation of penalties by some teams, the race officials threw this rule out and verified stops by the backup method of separate GPS unit tracks after the fact. My team had 100% compliance with SPOT because I paid attention to the orientation of SPOT, which has to be held FLAT with full view of the sky for up to 20 MINUTES from the time the button is pressed (though it need not be stationary during this time). I did this by affixing it to the bow deck of the canoe. Furthermore, if you press the button again before it has sent the first signal (could be 20 minutes), the first message is cancelled, the 20 minute period starts over with a the new location and most recent button press time.

This is clearly specified by SPOT instruction manual and was reiterated at the pre-race meeting. Some crews ignored this orientation requirement. A SPOT hanging vertically from a lanyard or in a pocket will have very poor transmission reliability. Because of the "confusion" with a number of racers, officials choose to ignore the offender's penalties even though some of us did play by the rules and were fully compliant.

 

[Tim Seaver]

My wife bought me a SPOT because most mornings when I leave the house to go north, I dont know where I'm hiking until I get there. The SPOT can help pinpoint the last known location of my truck (because it works well on the roads and hiways) but once I carry SPOT into the woods, only a very small per centages of the signals get picked up.

bob

I am often in the same boat, having no idea of what I am doing until the last minute, and by that time I figure out what I am doing, I am often at a place with no cell reception, so I can't call home to give my itinerary.

This sounds like an excellent application for this particular device - thanks for sharing!

 

[DougPaul]

Same deal with most handheld GPS receivers, eh? If the user is mobile, they just amble (or crawl) to an open spot in the forest canopy.

No--get a modern high-sensitivity GPS. They work well under tree cover and partial sky blockage (ie in a valley). This could be critical in an accident where one may not have the luxury of chasing after spots with a good skyview.

I can turn my 60CSx on, throw it in the top of my pack, take a hike in the woods, and return with a solid track for the day. At my accident scene I was sitting in the snow (on an insulating pad) under moderate tree cover, pulled out my GPS, turned it on, and promptly (ie within a couple of minutes) got a solid fix.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I am often in the same boat, having no idea of what I am doing until the last minute, and by that time I figure out what I am doing, I am often at a place with no cell reception, so I can't call home to give my itinerary.

This sounds like an excellent application for this particular device - thanks for sharing!

Or consider a satphone. Expensive, but far more versatile. And you get confirmation that your message got through because you actually get to talk to the recipient (or the 911 operator*, if required).

* I don't know if 911 works on a satphone--you might have to call the emergency operator/services directly.


Besides, you can't order a pizza with SPOT or a PLB...

Doug

 

[Little Rickie]

Don't know what I'd do, .

You'd walk out.

Back then, EVERYONE hiked without a cell phone

It would be interesting to know how hiking stats have changed since then. I bet we have a higher percent of incidents now because people are not as prepared and are counting on being rescued.

If I were to be rescued I'd be embarrased if it was because I wasn't prepared or was negligent.

 

[Chip]

It would be interesting to know how hiking stats have changed since then. I bet we have a higher percent of incidents now because people are not as prepared and are counting on being rescued.

It would be interesting to know. IMHO, I believe there have always been ill-prepared hikers. Substantially better and commonly available gear now might allow todays hikers more room for error. If there is a higher percent of incidents now, it could just be (due to technology) because of better reporting/record keeping.

 

[RoySwkr]

It would be interesting to know how hiking stats have changed since then. I bet we have a higher percent of incidents now because people are not as prepared and are counting on being rescued.

I don't believe that many people go out expecting to be rescued, do you drive more carefully in rural areas than in cities because the EMS response time is longer? But they do expect instant help if they call.

In any activity there are hard-core fans who know what they are doing, and clueless hangers-on who just follow the latest fads. The second kind may call for rescue because it stays light too late or the water looks funny. Before cell phones and rescue beacons, people just dealt with those problems as best as they could - usually successfully. A lot of reported problems could be handled by advice from a knowledgeable dispatcher but rescue organizations pride themselves on their responses. I remember reading in an old Paul Doherty column about an incident when a man reported his wife overdue on a summer hike, and was told to go up the trail with a flashlight as she was probably just benighted - it worked but can you imagine that happening today?

 

[--M.]

Is it me or has the sport ("sport"?) exploded in the last ten years? It seems there are a lot more people out there (especially in winter) and they're much better informed & connected to a community ethos.

Or is that just here on VFtT?

 

[Maddy]

I don't believe that many people go out expecting to be rescued, do you drive more carefully in rural areas than in cities because the EMS response time is longer? But they do expect instant help if they call.

In any activity there are hard-core fans who know what they are doing, and clueless hangers-on who just follow the latest fads. The second kind may call for rescue because it stays light too late or the water looks funny. Before cell phones and rescue beacons, people just dealt with those problems as best as they could - usually successfully. A lot of reported problems could be handled by advice from a knowledgeable dispatcher but rescue organizations pride themselves on their responses. I remember reading in an old Paul Doherty column about an incident when a man reported his wife overdue on a summer hike, and was told to go up the trail with a flashlight as she was probably just benighted - it worked but can you imagine that happening today?

Good heaven's SAR would surely be sued.
We have a new condition to go along with the speed dial.
It's called "entitlement"!

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

Does S&R deliver?
"Hello, S&R? No, I'm all right and I'm not lost, but I'm really hungry. Here's my GPS coordinates - would you bring me a large pizza with pepperoni and mushrooms?".....

 

[Chip]

Does S&R deliver?
"Hello, S&R? No, I'm all right and I'm not lost, but I'm really hungry. Here's my GPS coordinates - would you bring me a large pizza with pepperoni and mushrooms?".....

Actually, with one of these babies, how far behind could pizza delivery be ?