When does a memorial become trash in a backcountry setting?

[jrgagne99]

just wondering, what is the threshold for Leave No Trace? For example, does leaving a boot-print in the mud violate this rule? How about some cookie crums on the side of the trail? What about a cat-hole? I'm not trying to be a smarta$$, just looking for some guidance. Maybe this has been covered in other threads already...

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Here are the 7 official principles: http://lnt.org/learn/7-principles. See #2 about mud.

Tim

 

[erugs]

Tim's link is the one to go to, but I just want to add that we all have and leave an impact in whatever we do. Perhaps Leave No Trace should be Leave Little Trace. In mud, walking right through it rather than around it seems to be a difficult concept. But the worst of all is TP.

 

[TJsName]

Yup - this is something where the 'spirit' of the rule is eminently important. We acknowledge that we are hiking on trails that have been cut though the woods, sleeping in shelters that are (relatively) permanent structures, drinking water from streams, and leaving human waste. The idea to to leave the area the same or better than it was. When one tries to hash out all scenarios they will inevitably create fallacious arguments for what is/is not allowed.

 

[Peaks]

just wondering, what is the threshold for Leave No Trace? For example, does leaving a boot-print in the mud violate this rule? How about some cookie crums on the side of the trail? What about a cat-hole? I'm not trying to be a smarta$$, just looking for some guidance. Maybe this has been covered in other threads already...

Leave no trace is ethics and principles. They become rules when a land manaer creates them. For example, one leave no trace principle involves limiting group size to reduce impact. The White Mountain National Forest, the land manager, defines this as 10 or fewer.

 

[Raven]

Yup - this is something where the 'spirit' of the rule is eminently important. We acknowledge that we are hiking on trails that have been cut though the woods, sleeping in shelters that are (relatively) permanent structures, drinking water from streams, and leaving human waste. The idea to to leave the area the same or better than it was. When one tries to hash out all scenarios they will inevitably create fallacious arguments for what is/is not allowed.

Outstanding.

 

[griffin]

I think the 7th principle is also worth considering when we're talking about trying to set up personal memorials in the mountains.

I respect and admire efforts to honor service men and women (fallen or otherwise). That is a noble intent. And I firmly believe that wilderness heals, so I respect that something like this can also be part of a healing process. But by his own words he expects these articles to degrade and eventually be removed - by someone else. So ditto Iagreewithjamie, and ditto Dave Metsky. I appreciate the original intent, but can't support the execution.

 

[Kevin Judy and Emma]

One more comment and I'm through: The world isn't always black & white-it's OK to bend the rules a little once in awhile if no permanent harm is done-

Let the first person who has never broken or bent the rules camping or hiking in the back country throw the first stone- for example- do you ALWAYS yield to hikers climbing up when you are descending? Have you ever gone off trail to go around mud? or a blowdown? Do you ALWAYS dig a cat hole? Do you ALWAYS use biodegradable toilet paper and soap? Do you ALWAYS hike in a group of 10 or less? Is your fire ever bigger than necessary? Has your group ever blasted music late into the night, piled up trash and left food out?

Yeah, that's what I thought... let it go. Most of these memorials are already down...

KDT

 

[thegibba]

I saw another memorial on Jackson the other day. I have only been hiking these mountains for a few years now. Is this that common of an occurrence? At least this one wasn't stapled to the trees. I don't care for the defacing of the colors nor do i wish summit cairns to look like cemeteries or Christmas trees. I can certainly sympathize and appreciate with this persons issues. I believe I saw this person on Liberty on sept 14th while on an excursion with other members of our FOT 48 team. Said person was holding a sheet of paper in a plastic sleeve describing a similar situation with the phrase "HIKE IT OUT".

 

[Red Oak]

Maybe there is other ways to accomplish ones goals than this?While I do feel terrible for what this person went thru,I am concerned about the precedent here.Maybe a small plastic container which is not going to get wrecked by the weather up there?While I do support our armed forces,if all vets started to put wood boxes on our summits,they could get crowded real fast.[or anyone with ptsd]I would think this persons use of facebook can do the job here.Several years ago I found some junk on Tecumseh buried,I threw it out and later found out it was a geocache.My bad?In reality ones persons memento is the park services trash,which is what they will do with it I am sure.Good luck to this person getting thru this difficult time...Thanks Peter for bringing this up,even if it is a very touchy issue...

 

[erugs]

What I see her is "another" group (not the original one we were speaking of) beginning to leave their "mark" behind. I absolutely honor people and their lives and I see the two issues as separate. Honoring the one and Trash the other. I want to be honored in a loving heart, having a mark left nowhere. A precedent has been set and I would expect more will begin to be seen. Surely we have not become a paperless society as predicted. Have a ceremony but pick up behind yourselves directly afterwards. Use one of the existing holidays to temporarily mark your annual event.

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I think I'm gonna resist the urge to be overly-vocal in my opinion this time. After protesting the last group of litterers, I found myself suddenly subscribed to a few wounded veterans mailing lists, and the recipient of lots of "You hate the troops" e-mails from soldiers' friends and families.

So instead, I'll simply comment that the best way to honor someone in the woods is by being a good steward of the environment... which, in the backcountry, is accomplished via Leave-No-Trace:
http://lnt.org/

 

[Tom_Murphy]

I sent a message to her FB account, requesting that she refrain from doing this to other summits.

 

[JustJoe]

I've seen many memorials over the years on several summits. Most of them have been engraved stones. I saw this one recently, sort of off the beaten track. I realize none of these should be left on any summit but I don't find these offensive. That's just my opinion.

I was on Jackson Saturday and saw that box. It's by far the most unsightly thing purposely placed on a summit I've ever seen. I came close to taken it down myself.

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I was on Jackson Saturday and saw that box. It's by far the most unsightly thing purposely placed on a summit I've ever seen. I came close to taken it down myself.

I would argue that THIS is the most unsightly thing purposely placed on a summit:

 

[sierra]

Memorials should not be left on any summit, regardless of the reason. If someone wants to place a memorial in the mountains, they should bushwack in far enough that know one else would ever see it. To be honest even that is intrusive , but at least your not bothering anyone else. With all the tragedy in the world, imagine if this became real popular, the summits would be like those roadside memorials, that would be awful. many people hike to get away from it all, not to be reminded of it all.

 

[erugs]

Memorials should not be left on any summit, regardless of the reason. If someone wants to place a memorial in the mountains, they should bushwack in far enough that know one else would ever see it. To be honest even that is intrusive , but at least your not bothering anyone else. With all the tragedy in the world, imagine if this became real popular, the summits would be like those roadside memorials, that would be awful. many people hike to get away from it all, not to be reminded of it all.

Totally agree, and this should not be limited to summits. Add anywhere along any trail, viewpoints, hazards, as well. There are formal memorials from days gone by, and those may be grandfathered in. I think it could be considered that if a group wanted to sponsor a trail in honor of someone that their honored one might be mentioned at the trailhead, just as the listing of those who are trailmaintainers with a group name. (This trail is maintained in the memory of _____ by _____.)

 

[dug]

erugs...I LOVE that idea. Giving back at the same time as honoring. Very good.

 

[TJsName]

That is an excellent idea. I don't think many would oppose a small plaque/posting at the trail head kiosk. A well maintained trail definitely would be a great way to honor someone's memory.

 

[VFTTop'r]

nh law dictates that if u find anything of value that is not yours one must turn it in to the local/state police, and the flags left that the soldiers died for must be considered of great value. So if u bring 'em down, bring 'em in.

(From post 14)

Good one yankees guy.

Amen!!!!!!