When does a memorial become trash in a backcountry setting?

[Kevin Rooney]

I sent a message to her FB account, requesting that she refrain from doing this to other summits.

Seems reasonable. If every hiker carried a memorial box to every summit, then some of the most popular summits (.i.e., Washington, Lafayette, Camels Hump) could easily have 500 to 1000 boxes every weekend.

Say a prayer, or bring a pebble and place it on the summit cairn, or something inconspicuous that doesn't call attention to oneself. There's a place/time for public grieving.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Here is Nicole's story in The Boston Globe.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...rs-struggle/P4u35gXwcFlNZcYd3eLnzH/story.html

It is a chance, for those of you who feel strongly, to leave a (hopefully polite and thoughtful) comment informing readers why you feel the boxes are a bad thing.

Tim

 

[Red Oak]

So the globe is ok with her leaving stuff on top?Maybe she should contact who is responsible for the uptake of every peak?Forest service,amc,etc. and ask......
A few years back I was group leader for flags on the 48 Passaconaway.No one in the group left Anything and neither did the planes flying overhead to commemorate the day[sept. 11th], which was the life defining day for several generations.The hike was personally very special for me because both my grandparents ashes were scattered by air on Passaconaway after their passings.My grandfather was also in the airforce.I am sure several people on this site have had to endure through very tough times,but I respectfully reiterate what I said earlier that a bad precedent could be set here with Nicole's actions.This issue is not some simple issue of a bunch of eco freaks not wanting anyone to sneeze in nature.There is a question of respect to actual law and policy in the white mountains.It is not legal to leave any items[trash or memorial]in the woods or mountains.PACK IT IN<PACK IT OUT!!

 

[JCarter]

I thought that there might be some hope of convincing her that illegally leaving trash in the backcountry is just not an acceptable solution to her issues, no matter how noble the intent. I even appealed to a buddy of mine who was also a Marathon first responder to see if he could talk sense into her. The Warrior Hikers did see any need to deface the AT as they "hiked it off", and neither should she.

I see now that this just isn't going to happen. If I encounter one of these on a day when I'm feeling particularly charitable, I'll pack it down, put it in a UPS box and ship it to her. If it's a day when I'm not feeling charitable, or my pack doesn't have space, it'll probably end up converted to CO2 and water through a rapid exothermic reaction. When she finds out this is happening to her boxes, I hope she complains to the USFS. According to the article, there are 15 already awaiting disposal, and another 33 to be placed.

 

[--M.]

Wait a minute.

There's still a lot of trauma associated with the Marathon bombings. Hikers do no service to themselves or anyone else by forgetting the need for diplomacy, understanding and compassion. The worst-case scenario for the morphing of these boxes to trash still does not rise to the level of justifying multiple messages to educate someone who may be in no position to hear the point.

Breathing space is the right play here, educate a little later.

Just my opinion, in a place that can handle it.

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I had a nice exchange with David Abel, the guy who wrote the article.
I wrote him, commended him on the piece, but pointed out that the article paints her adventures of memorializing at the summits as something commendable.
I sent him the link to the Leave-No-Trace website, and discussed with him the challenges that our groups faces in educating new hikers to the ideals of Leave No Trace.

After the initial "C'mon Jamie, have a heart" and the "David, we need to respect the environment" exchanges... he actually was quite interested in our view point.
He asked if there has been more of this type of thing recently, and also asked if I thought it was because of the bombings. My thoughts are that with more and more people visiting WMNF to bag the 48, there are lots of well-intentioned people that are simply not informed of Leave No Trace, and that's why people like us are fighting so hard to bring awareness to this issue. Not really related to this or that... there's just more people who feel the need to use hiking the 48 as a way to make a statement, and don't feel that their effort is sufficient enough without leaving something behind.

Bottom line: I think everyone cares about the Boston bombing victims, and everyone (in principle) agrees with the ideas of LNT. However, like Tim said in a previous post (regarding buying patches as opposed to earning them), "Nobody cares that you hiked the 48 but you". I think that comment drives at the heart of this whole thing. Leave No Trace is set of principles that benefit EVERYONE who wants to use the woods; raising awareness of PTSD in first responders from the marathon is also something that collectively benefits society - but making some loud "in your face" gesture indicating that you were here and you climbed this mountain and you did for whatever reason benefits nobody but yourself.

It's like spray-painting "I love Thelma" on a stop sign. It means a lot to you and Thelma, but it is against the law, someone else will have to clean it up, and most people don't even know who Thelma is.

 

[thegibba]

So we when we collectively come across these we remove remove them. Seems pretty straight forward. If the memorials don't stand a chance of having any staying power they stand less of a chance of being placed in the first place. At the moment the forest service is reduced to a team of 13 or so due to "The shutdown!". It's up to the community to deal with the issue as far as I can see. I can't wait for a confrontation on a busy 4k when I take a memorial and put it in my pack to be removed . Any chance of inviting the woman to the board to participate in the conversation?

I personally thought this was a beautiful, motivational and respectful way to get her message across.

 

[Raven]

I hope Nicole does not mind me saying so here but she was part of the group I was with Saturday. We hiked Monroe and Washington. The picture in the paper is from that hike, as she was on her 14th and 15th of this journey.

On both summits she simply held two signs and took a picture to commemorate it. She told me in no uncertain terms that she didn't mean any harm by leaving the boxes nor did she really fully understand its impact regarding LNT. She got the message clearly and she understands. She's not leaving boxes. She's getting pictures. I don't condone leaving traces. I pick up lots of trash. But I commend her for changing the way she did this once she learned.

Like the guy doing 48 for the Fallen, her heart is in the right place.

She was a first responder at a terrorist attack six months ago. Think about that for a minute. Then tell her to pick up her trash if you want, but say it with some compassion. She probably doesn't need any extra kicks in the teeth right now.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I know Nicole personally and brought this to her attention. She has been invited to participate but has been too busy to craft any formal response. Like Scott mentioned, she was apologetic and meant no harm. It is my belief that she will not leave any more boxes. I have been waiting to see if she had the time to respond herself, but since Scott already brought it up...

Tim

 

[Stan]

Perhaps she can leave a memorial at the trailhead at the conclusion of her hike where 1) it will be noticed by more people and appreciated for its intent, 2) easier to clean up and of less impact when it deteriorates or weathers to a nuisance instead of the poignancy with which it was intended, and 3) less offensive to the sensitivities of the heretofore insensitivities of some of the environmental police.

 

[H2OSki4Life]

Good grief Charlie Brown… I had no idea this forum had so much action on it.

My name is Nicole Fluet McGerald, I am 31 years old and I work as a doctor of physical therapy in Southern NH. I was born and raised in Massachusetts and worked in Boston for a long time. Although I've earned doctorate, masters and bachelors degrees, I have taken so long to post this apology because I simply have not been able to come up with the proper words.

I will preface this with the fact that six months ago I was a first responder at the finish line medical tent at the Boston Marathon. I have done this for the past eight years.

Among many personal things that have nothing to do with any of you, I have also had an extraordinary amount of deaths this past year- 18 to be exact. The reason I'm telling you this is so that you can potentially empathize with the fact that my train of thought has not been the most clairvoyant.

For the first three months after the bombing I had to ask somebody what day of the week it was. Again I realize this has nothing to do with any of you but it's just my attempt for you to have a small percentage of empathy as to where I'm coming from.

The most important thing you need to know is that I'd probably give you the shirt off my back if you needed it. I work in nonprofit medicine… Guess you could say people who work in nonprofit medicine don't exactly do it for the paycheck.

Exactly year ago I had the major life-changing event which led me to restart hiking after a 5 year vacation and reunite with the mountains. I needed to get my energy back. Then 6 months later, a day before my birthday, the bombing happened; I was so confused I wasn't eating or sleeping. 12 days after when I was walking around in zombie mode a good friend brought me out hiking again. It was the first time I felt better...at least for a few minutes. Then it would feel worse all over again.

In the weeks following I continued to hike and I continue to feel better. Things got better- worse- better worse- better- worse...so in July I took some time off from work to regroup. It was later explained to me that this is normal. I hiked and hiked and hiked again and that is when I got the idea for the boxes.

In July I was ecstatic to be finally figuring what day of the week it was at least 85% of the time. I had been participating in trauma treatment a couple times a week and realized that there were many others who still hadn't gotten help. Actually know of one MD who needed to take a three month leave of absence.

I don't expect anyone who wasn't there to understand what the first responders or victims are going through. Nor do I want any pity or sorrow.

My goal with leaving a small 3" x 4" box... Sometimes 2" x 2" was simply to leave information and educate others. I never never never meant to disrespect anyone or cause an uproar as such as happened. I felt horrible when Tim told me about the rules. As Tim briefly touched upon I literally had no idea.

For that I apologize and I am sorry... for lack of better words for my ignorance. I truly never meant to cause any work for anyone, disrespect anyone, or leave a memorial. My sole intention was to help other people; and to that I thought a wooden box would eventually degrade into the soil. With the "" wooden box in mind I say that with the 100% honest fact that I was unaware of the leave no trace rule. Hey did not want to leave a permanent mark but again I will reiterate I did not know it was a real rule. Pure ignorance and i am wrong.
I did not look up the rules and it was my fault. I am truly sorry. "For having offended thee" / Thought I was a recovered Catholic but I feel a bit like I'm at confession. (Just trying to lighten the mood)...

I have always respected carry in Carry out- but again it literally never dawned on me that I was leaving trash. I feel badly that in have offended some of you- truly. I'd like to deeply express my sincere apology for upsetting anyone or causing any problems.

As is... the ONLY reason I agreed to the story published in the Globe today was to help others.

Inside the medical tent there were MD's, DPT's, ATC's and RNs "volunteers"....
Outside the tent were police and EMS = paid.
Post bombing the paid help were immediately debriefed while the volunteers inside the tent were left...
We were offered a counseling session. Although I "appreciated" the offer I didn't exactly want to go talk to somebody I didn't know in a place where I almost just died.

When the bomb went off... I knew right away what it was while others didn't.
An announcement came over the tent loudspeaker for all doctors to go to the finish line.
The voice instructed the rest of us that basically the worst of all emergencies had happened but we need to stay and continue working. When the final victims were cleared we were "dismissed". I walked out of that tent that I was zipped into - mind you no phones would work we had no idea what was on the other side of the wall. I'm attempting to walk to a safe place any place and then a third bomb went off-

Now please imagine that you're an experienced medical professional and you're working a big army tent that is 80% capacity full of patients already. You're used to seeing typical marathon runners: dehydration hyponatremia occasional heart attack or new onset of atrial fibrillation. Some orthostatic hypotension and occasional confusion. Then bombs go off and people start entering the tent- running -flying through with limbs blown off. people yelling and screaming. Right in front of your eyes you watch the most intense form of CPR you've ever seen never mind practiced - performed as you watch a young woman your age take her last breath. And then we had to make a morgue.

So imagine all of this- your brain is flying everywhere, you think the third bomb will hit the tent... and then you're told to keep doing your job like you always do.

Ummmm yeah...I'm going to go with… I'm going to give myself just a little slack on not only figuring out the day of the week but not being able to be diligent enough to know all the hiking rules.

The EMS and police were immediately debriefed while the people "inside the tent" were offered a counseling session if they wanted to drive back into Boston. Yep "Nuff said" The people who performed CPR on the people that died the people who bandage severed limbs and helped keep people alive were not Debriefed.

One week later and M.D. who was working inside the tent with me was so beyond herself that we were not debriefed that she organized professional trauma specialist to come out to UMass Memorial's medical center in Worcester and provide a professional medical debriefing.

I say this not because I want your empathy or that I remotely begin to think that any of you can sympathize. I say this because this is more then hiking and nature and breaking the rules. This is hopefully a "one and done" life experience. I never signed up for combat. I've had patients die before- I've worked in surgery. I used to scrub into cardiac surgery at Mass General Hospital and hold hearts. The reason I'm telling you this is because it is unlike anything I've ever been through. My life has been turned upside down.

Seriously as you sit here reading this think for just 90 seconds... Sit there and look at the computer and think real hard and ask yourself how scary it is to not be able to figure out the day of the week. Hypothetically you have three college degrees you own a home and you're a very motivated active person and you can't figure out the "Effing" day of the week.

The reason I'm emphasizing this is not to make an excuse or justify what I did however I am attempting to explain that I literally meant no harm in leaving a box. I DID NOT KNOW I was breaking a rule.

In the midst of all this imagine trying to functioning go to work and then have your work tell you that it wasn't a disaster on your hospital grounds so it "doesn't count". So you now have to use 80 hours of vacation time before you can even tap into your illness time to go to a trauma appointment. Despite a documented medical trauma.

And when you go to the trauma appointment you can't even handle the EMDR because you almost puke on the poor trauma specialist. Then they offer you medication you politely decline and tell them you going hiking because that "feels great." The doctor doesn't argue and instead then asks you what mountain you've climbed each week.

Then one day you're hiking the Bonds traverse and your friend who is a photojournalist asked you if you'd ever share your story... You say well... I never thought about it- it's for me it's, my church it's my peace...

Then I really thought about it and I realized that I don't want anyone to ever go through what I did. I want to help others and want to get the education out.

Someone suggested leaving messages on Facebook. Although I can now go on Facebook on my own account and on hiking pages I do not read the media more than 10% of the time. Until recently I hadn't even watch TV in six months it was just too much to handle.

So hence my idea in late July for the boxes. I thought if anyone else is up hiking and I came across it in new somebody who needed help that I could help them.

Not to beat a dead horse or make any excuses or begin to justify that I broke the leave no trace rules. I just want to tell you it honestly and truly did not cross my mind that I was leaving trash and I sincerely apologize to anyone that I have offended.

I only started leaving boxes around hike number ?7 I think. And as Scott stated in a previous post I have not left any on the last few hikes.

I was truly preparing a message to post to you guys I just haven't had the right time or words in between four recent unexpected family funerals within 6 weeks.

 

[H2OSki4Life]

I don't think there's anything else I can say. If I come across a box that I previously left I will be sure to remove it. Hey I even picked up some trash on Monroe in Washington last weekend! Scott is my witness

With all this said if any of you know anybody who needs help from the bombing please contact me.

Oh and reading all these posts I saw a post that said somebody emailed me...
I'd like you to know I did not receive an email or Facebook message ever. My email is: [email protected] and my Facebook is currently under Nicole Fluet.
There's only one other Nicole Fluet in the entire United States and she lives in Florida. Although she did win the lottery twice I figured if anyone wanted to contact me did realize somebody in Florida wasn't hiking in New Hampshire.
There is a Nicole Campbell McGerald and I only noticed because she once emailed me... However she's African-American and lives on an island somewhere in the tropics. So I don't think she'll be hiking any 4000 footers anytime soon either. I was never trying to be sneaky- obviously I left my entire first/middle/last name.

I hope this message serves as a minimal apology to the trouble I've caused. My main point is that I never meant to be disrespectful and I hope you all can understand that. If anyone else has further questions please feel free to contact me.

My one request that both Scott and Tim echoed earlier is that if you feel the need to contact me - please do not do so just to yell at me. To be honest I just can't handle that right now. I openly welcome any questions or anything I can further assist with but I hope my apology ends the negative energy on this feed. I never meant to be disrespectful.
I am sorry.

Nicole Fluet McGerald, DPT, MS, BS
[email protected]





Dr. Nicole F. McGerald
[email protected]

Live a Good Life. In the end it is not the Years in a Life, but the Life in the Years. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Thank you for sharing that, Nicole.

Tim

 

[H2OSki4Life]

thank you for bringing this to my attention Tim. I will also say that I never would have EVER seen this if someone hadn't shown me. Most "ignorant" people likely breaking the rules are unaware of "VFTT" as I was. Learn something new everyday...
A positive suggestion of a less private feed is that if there is a large or serious concern, also posting a copy to the facebook "4K Footer" feed may get attention of less experienced hikers. I'm just trying to think of a positive suggestion to keep your VFTT forum private while educating others.
Thanks,
Nicole

 

[H2OSki4Life]

sorry one last "share"...I'd like to end this on a Happier Positive note and i wanted to share the link to a clip of the video portion of the interview. It has some hiking pictures at the end. Also the online version of the article has other hiking pics from Washington Etc. David Abel has asked me if I will let him accompany me when I do my "48"... He is a genuinely nice person and I thought that was pretty cool.
http://bcove.me/fdxgp9vt

 

[thegibba]

I applaud you for coming on here and sharing your harrowing life story. I cannot begin to understand what you have gone through. I do wish you best and hope you and anyone else you touch with your message recover from your internal strife.

 

[MadRiver]

As someone who is over-the-top anal about Leave No Trace, I “personally” have no problem with what you were doing. Given the amount of trash that is routinely left at trailheads and summits, a small wooden box placed under a cairn or placed in an inconspicuous spot for only you to know of its existence is perfectly fine, for me at least. I’ve seen many individual memorials or remembrances carved into a stone and placed on a summit, and yet no one seems to mind. Just because it is made of wood, shouldn’t discount it message.

On a personal note, my two young nieces were at the finish line that day, though they left with their father a mere ten minutes before the first explosion. I cannot even fathom what that would have been like for our family if they had remained.

I find it unconscionable that you cannot receive the adequate help in coming to terms with such a violent encounter. It should make no difference if you were a volunteer or a paid first responder, something is seriously wrong with our system of medical care if this is left unchallenged. I generally stay out of political debates, but this just pisses me off!!!!

I cannot view you video at work, not that it is not allowed, it is just not acceptable in polite society to be crying at your desk during working hours. I will, however, view it at home.

I do hope I have the privilege to meet you on the trail some day? I will be the middle aged guy wearing a kilt and crying, so try not to be too alarmed.

God Speed Nicole!

P/B

 

[Raven]

Thanks for taking the time and having the courage to post all that Nicole.

 

[Grey J]

Nicole, It took a lot of courage for you to come on board here and share all that. I hope the mountains help to comfort your soul and bring you the peace of mind you need. Thank you for the support you have provided to the victims of the bombing.

 

[JCarter]

Well, as usual, I'm a giant a-hole.

Thanks for coming and sharing. Sorry if my rantings were yelling. The Boston Globe sets me off all the time, I gotta learn to stop reading that.

Please be sure that none us are opposed to you trying to help other people, and we are sympathetic to what you have been through, even if we haven't experienced it ourselves. This board is loaded with folks who started and participate in the Flags on the 48, and this year many included memorials for the bombing victims. We are here because we also find healing and solace in the mountains, and want to preserve them for others, which is perhaps why we guard them so zealously.

I don't know if my buddy who was also in the med tent was able to reach out to you (he's one of the guys in camo who was all over the front page of the Globe in April, see below). I know he also dealt with PTSD issues, both from his service and from the bombing. If you'd like his contact info, PM me.



I hope I see you on the mountains sometime, and will try to be less of a jerk in person.