Mount Madison Rescue

As we all know...winter never really ends...
From today's Boston Globe
article

What trail were they on?? Did they think the hut was open??

ya know, I can't help but shake my head - someone who does the minimal amount of research will know the AMC hut isn't open - but the RMC one's are.

Remote section???????????????? - no more than 4 miles to a road

A map and compass and a rough travel of N - would drop them on RT 2 - in 3 to 4 miles probably from where they were.

giggy said:

ya know, I can't help but shake my head - someone who does the minimal amount of research will know the AMC hut isn't open - but the RMC one's are.

Remote section???????????????? - no more than 4 miles to a road

A map and compass and a rough travel of N - would drop them on RT 2 - in 3 to 4 miles probably from where they were.

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gig and lamerunner -
those were my exact thoughts!
Did they think the hut was open - it seems like they did...
And remote? There are so many trails and like you said, 4 miles out.
I think they thought it was spring and nothing like this could happen - it can be easy to confuse late May at sea level with the mountains.

So young... so daring...
Doesn't even sound like they had a map.


Those CT people should stick to their rolling hills

I imagine they learned a lesson and were fortunate the tuition wasn't too steep.

Sounds like possible justification of revenue enhancement for the NH Fish & Game.
No injuries, no mention of being lost / off trail.
Just tired, cold, unprepared, unaware.
Come on F&G...........go for the green..........it is justified.

From the F&G website.

Stop and ask yourself these questions:

Do I have proper clothing, equipment, food and water?
Am I proficient in outdoor skills?
Am I familiar with the terrain and weather conditions?
Am I physically fit for the challenges ahead?
Do I know the limitations of my group?
If you or anyone in your group answers NO or acts recklessly, resulting in search and rescue, YOU WILL PAY THE COSTS. It's the law in New Hampshire.

Their cellphone privileges should be cancelled. No one hurt, they can still walk, and yet they call for a rescue, I hope that they get charged by the state.

I've run into hikers yearround who think they can show up at an AMC hut and always get in. They don't know that the huts require reservations in summer and have limited seasons. Not that it excuses these guys, but it's not an uncommon idea.

They also may have gotten cold, hypothermic, and then seen a trailsign pointing to Madison Springs Hut and just headed that way. It's happened many times, including the incident where Albert Dow was killed looking of Hugh Herr and Jeff Baltzer.

I know at the OBP trailhead they have a sign posted when Greenleaf isn't open, but there are several trailheads in the northern Presies and people can walk right past them without reading them anyways.

-dave-

If this isn't a case for gettin charged for your rescue, then I don't know what is!! I'd be interested in what happens with that. Nobody hurt and still able to walk? I wouldn't be surprised if they were just sitting there waiting for a helicopter to pluck them off the side of the mountain! Then the rescuers come, "Oh, wait, we still have to walk outta here?!?"

And as said before, remote? 4 miles out! Try calling for help on the Bondcliff Ridge!

Sounds like some rookies to me. Headed to Madison Springs before it is even open? Pretty dumb, they got lucky this time.

Hopefully learned a lesson to check ahead to see if your destination is even open, and turn around if you are that unprepared and cold. Or just stick to CT hills (not to put down CT hikers).

Call me crazy, but even cold and tired, you can get down Valley Way in a few hours; if they called at 10 they could have been out long before the rescue team got there. I guess they did not know the trails though... but if I were on the other end of the phone I would certailny suggest it.

yea - will echo more of what has been said - I guess i have no patience for this type of crap - I think this is most def a case of the:

MOMMY I AM TIRED AND LAZY AND NEED HELP -I HAVE HAD EVERYTHING HANDED TO ME FROM DAY ONE INCLUDING THE SUV PARKED AT Trailhead NOW THE WEATHER HAS TURNED AND ITS NOT FUN ANYMORE SO I WILL CALL 911 SO THEY CAN CARRY ME OUT OF HERE

Fear and then panic can make any of us over react and not think clearly, at any age. Hopefully they have learned a valuable lesson and will return with a greater respect for the mountains.
kmac

kmac said:

Fear and then panic can make any of us over react and not think clearly, at any age.

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Not to mention that the early stages of hypothermia affect your ability to think. Don't get me wrong, their lack of forethought was stupid, and they should probably have to pay for their own rescue. But if they were cold and confused enough to not know which was was up, it's probably better that they called for help getting out before they fell into King Ravine or broke a leg and had to be CARRIED out.

I will mention again that only newspaper people and others that don't really hike use mileage in the mountains to convey information. I believe that hikers, SAR people, soldiers, etc are much more comfortable in using time to talk about distances. I mentioned in another thread somewhere that I can cover 4 miles in less that 4 minutes in my car on the highway. Out in the woods it can take from around 80 minutes to 8 hours depending on terrain, weather, my skills, the foilage, how tired, etc. The distance can give some information but the time it takes really tells the story of what kind of effort it is going to take to get from one point to another.

Of course the area they were in I agree that they should have been able to get themselves out, or at least below tree line, even if they were a little cold. Personally, I think they should make a nice fat contribution to the SAR fund also.

Just my $.02
Keith

I know what, let's contact these kids and take them out on a couple of 4k's once we've offered them advice on food, clothing, gear and safe behavior while on the trail.....Did you see their ages? 19, 20 and 22....I'm lucky I barely survived my 20's with the stupid stunts I pulled!....At least give them credit for choosing to hike rather than the myriad other dangerous choices available to them.....
The article states that they felt they couldn't go any further and were in jeaprody of becoming hypothermic. Under those circumstances, I think they made the right choice. It could have been a recovery otherwise. I'm sure they are grateful and have learned an important lesson and will pass it on to others...

....Jade
PS Three hikers died descending Everest, I think it was yesterday...I'm technically impaired and unable to copy the article....

It would be nice to hear their side on this one, at 10:30 they were calling for a rescue because they were cold & heading to a hut that was closed & too far from an RMC shelter to make it, so where were they & why did they wait so long? Apparently they were unprepared for hiking out that late in Spring in the Presidentials

Agree Valley Way is a cake walk in the dark with some light, did they have any? (it's my preferred way down when I think I'm going to be out late in the N-Presi's) My guess is they had little night time hiking experience & were not real familar with where they were.

When did they start? From Where? What time did they expect to finish, I'm guessing earlier than 4:30 Tuesday AM with a F&G escort. I'm thinking they will be approached about sending a donation in to F&G

Sleeping bags but apparently not enough clothing food & water for a long cold evening. Bags in case they get injured but not enough to keep them from getting injured/cold

No Offense on the CT jokes from the MA crowd, it's usaully you guys getting the F&G escort down the hill & pulled over on the side of I-93!

Mike P. said:

It would be nice to hear their side on this one

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Well, I will be so contrary as to suggest that the hikers' conduct in this one doesn't meet the "reckless" standard in the statute allowing for fines. It strikes me more as negligent than reckless, from the public facts so far. It also strikes me as exceedingly common -- and the pun is intentional.

EDIT: The statute doesn't define its use of "recklessly." The criminal code definitions (RSA 626:2 General Requirements of Culpability) are probably a good guide in this instance:

II. The following are culpable mental states:
(a) "Purposely." A person acts purposely with respect to a material element of an offense when his conscious object is to cause the result or engage in the conduct that comprises the element.
(b) "Knowingly." A person acts knowingly with respect to conduct or to a circumstance that is a material element of an offense when he is aware that his conduct is of such nature or that such circumstances exist.
(c) "Recklessly." A person acts recklessly with respect to a material element of an offense when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the material element exists or will result from his conduct. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that, considering the circumstances known to him, its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the conduct that a law-abiding person would observe in the situation. A person who creates such a risk but is unaware thereof solely by reason of having voluntarily engaged in intoxication or hypnosis also acts recklessly with respect thereto.
(d) "Negligently." A person acts negligently with respect to a material element of an offense when he fails to become aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the material element exists or will result from his conduct. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that his failure to become aware of it constitutes a gross deviation from the conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.

Since the only info we have is from an out-of-state newspaper, I for one am going wait until some additional facts from credible sources become available before passing judgement. It's easy to assume that 3 young 20-something males got stuck a couple of miles up on Valley Way and called for help on their cell phone. My hunch is that's there more to it than that - SAR units usually doesn't respond unless there are actual injuries or imminent risk of injuries.

Let's wait a bit. Plenty of time to really pillory them later for those feeling the need.

sardog1 said:

Well, I will be so contrary as to suggest that the hikers' conduct in this one doesn't meet the "reckless" standard in the statute allowing for fines. It strikes me more as negligent than reckless, from the public facts so far. It also strikes me as exceedingly common -- and the pun is intentional.

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I agree. I don't think this approaches the reckless standard. I still think a nice donation to S&R would be a good gesture, but they did something stupid, not malicious.

And on reading what Kevin wrote, I agree with that, too. We're definately jumping the gun on this story, without a lot of facts.

-dave-