What's up with Monadnock?
- Thread starter pks4000
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Quietman
Well-known member
Park Manager pleading for cooperation = Lame government official?
You have a right to your opinion, but I completely disagree.
Although I generally agree with the following quote:
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Robert A. Heinlein
My morals tell me that there are so many other trails to hike, and the views from the top, (or from the trail) will still be there another day.
But feel free to follow your morals.
You have a right to your opinion, but I completely disagree.
Although I generally agree with the following quote:
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Robert A. Heinlein
My morals tell me that there are so many other trails to hike, and the views from the top, (or from the trail) will still be there another day.
But feel free to follow your morals.
Andrew
Active member
Whoa!
I didn't see all this discussion in this section.
The "public land argument", the majority of the trails are actually on private conservation organization lands. SPNHF who was founded primarily to promote sound management of NH forests. State manages the recreational aspects of thier lands on Monadnock.
Staff has had to stash equipment on the closed trails, people have messed with gear since they can follow tracks on CLOSED trails in the snow. So now heavy gear gets lugged up & down and progress slows.
The lame government officials are actually some nice dedicated folks who might have to save your life someday.
The park does not keep all the fees collected, they go into a state park fund for operation of all of the parks in the state. NH Parks is the only 100% user funded park system in the nation, no tax $.
The first ranger is in at 7am on weekends, 8 am weekdays- not 9 am.
I didn't see all this discussion in this section.
The "public land argument", the majority of the trails are actually on private conservation organization lands. SPNHF who was founded primarily to promote sound management of NH forests. State manages the recreational aspects of thier lands on Monadnock.
Staff has had to stash equipment on the closed trails, people have messed with gear since they can follow tracks on CLOSED trails in the snow. So now heavy gear gets lugged up & down and progress slows.
The lame government officials are actually some nice dedicated folks who might have to save your life someday.
The park does not keep all the fees collected, they go into a state park fund for operation of all of the parks in the state. NH Parks is the only 100% user funded park system in the nation, no tax $.
The first ranger is in at 7am on weekends, 8 am weekdays- not 9 am.
pks4000
New member
Hopefully Ill be around to enjoy the Mt next year.
There are a few other choices out there.
They are undrstaffed and would do well to ask for a volunteer group to clear say Marlboro Tr.
There are a few other choices out there.
They are undrstaffed and would do well to ask for a volunteer group to clear say Marlboro Tr.
Andrew
Active member
The Marlboro Tr actually didn't get hit that bad. Not sure why that one has not been reopened, but my guess is the concern of folks spreading out onto the impacted trails. The trailhead could be signed- but of course no one bothers to honor them.
Just an FYI about some of the justifications on the continued closures. Talked with the park chief today and he said the first asessment of the Parker Trail reclearing was 1-2 days. The crew started on it this weekend- but because so many people had snowshoed on the closed trail, it hammered the snow into & around the branches so hard that he said it's going to take a week or more to clear.
Just an FYI about some of the justifications on the continued closures. Talked with the park chief today and he said the first asessment of the Parker Trail reclearing was 1-2 days. The crew started on it this weekend- but because so many people had snowshoed on the closed trail, it hammered the snow into & around the branches so hard that he said it's going to take a week or more to clear.
giggy
New member
where are the all these other choices? where else can you get nealy 2000 ft of ele gain on rock, snow in ice in under 2 miles with some exposure, etc.. within 90 minutes of southern ma?
I would love to know about these other choices.
I would love to know about these other choices.
pks4000
New member
Hey Giggy.
I too am a big Monadnock fan. A big mountain climb with some alpine qualities and challenges close to home (Mine anyway)
I too am a big Monadnock fan. A big mountain climb with some alpine qualities and challenges close to home (Mine anyway)
dr_wu002
Well-known member
It's a great little mountain... nice, steep trails, good physical challenge to get up and down quickly etc. Nice drive for me from Western MA... I can get there without taking any interstates (big plus) in under 90 minutes. Good place to get into hiking shape and to be honest, it's cool seeing all the people enjoying the mountain.
-Dr. Wu
mookie
New member
It is a fun lil mountain, first mountain i ever hiked. 9th grade class trip!
lots of trail options and close to Mass, although not close anymore.
lots of trail options and close to Mass, although not close anymore.
smitty77
New member
This is just unacceptable behavior by hikers who should know better. Unless you're going to contribute to the cleanup, stay out of closed areas so that the trail crews can get the job done quickly. Ignoring the requests of the park staff costs us all in the long run. Days and weeks will now be wasted because a few people can't be team players and hike on trails that are already cleared.
And I thought the blatant disrespect for the efforts of park staff and volunteers (ie. pushing over cairns) was prevalent only during the summer months, perpetuated by "uneducated tourist types".
Matt
(a former Monadnock State Park Volunteer)
giggy
New member
don't understand how people snowshoing, hiking, or bushwhacking or anything hinders anything - I just don't get it.
can one of the monadnock volenteers help me understand?
just let people hike the trails at their own risk....I am failing to see the issue.
I obey the rules and don't venture off the trails - but I have no problem with those that do. Its been 3 months since the ice storm.
can one of the monadnock volenteers help me understand?
just let people hike the trails at their own risk....I am failing to see the issue.
I obey the rules and don't venture off the trails - but I have no problem with those that do. Its been 3 months since the ice storm.
RoySwkr
New member
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I believe that the State Parks Dept (at whatever level) has completely mishandled the Monadnock situation, by underestimating the love that hikers have for Monadnock and their desire to hike there and also underestimating the ability of volunteers to help. While the park has traditionally allowed hikers wide latitude to behave stupidly in terms of inadequate clothing, equipment, and footgear, suddenly they have closed off most of the park although hiking there is probably less dangerous than visiting the summit in a lightning storm or in February without crampons both of which are allowed. They post large signs warning of fines but can't even ticket parked cars thus encouraging scofflaws. I intend to write a letter to Governor Lynch suggesting that like FEMA after Katrina there need to be some changes and perhaps some heads rolling, but I won't send it until next summer after the trails reopen because as has been pointed out the park management doesn't need any more distraction now.
Every member of the park staff I have met has been energetic and dedicated but their numbers are few particularly at this season, and they need to know when to ask for and accept help. This state has many retired people who have been loggers or trail maintainers longer than most of the park staff have been alive. There are organized clubs such as
Trailwrights that specialize in trail work while it is only a sideline to most park rangers. Sure some of the lower trails may require heavy equipment to reopen, but even that has often been donated particularly for snowmobile trail work. With the park staff to provide direction and a couple of volunteer weekends, all of the upper mountain trails could have been opened long ago. I'm sure the lower trails suffered more and bigger deadfalls, but as I haven't been allowed to see them I'm not sure how long they might take. Yes, you can't do a perfect job with snow on the ground and some additional work will have to be done next spring, but what's the advantage to waiting?
So who cares whether the trails are open? Why not just close the whole park until summer when the blowdowns can be removed more easily or maybe for 50 years or so until they rot away? By the park's own logic, not removing blowdowns promptly will lead animals and trespassers to create paths around them, harming the park. The sooner they are removed, the better for the park. But most importantly, it's a matter of stewardship. Any park really belongs not to the state but to the people, and the state should not restrict access unnecessarily as it is by not accepting help to open trails faster.
I do have a little background for my statements. I used to maintain trails on Monadnock as a Boy Scout over 40 years ago. I was an LT/AT volunteer maintainer during the last big blowdown a decade ago, and got my section open without professionals or chain saws. My mother had a trail in the WMNF and we went up on snowshoes to clear it, so it was actually better that spring than most years when we didn't do a winter visit. There are many folk in this group who are more talented than myself and would have been happy to help at Monadnock if only they were allowed to.
Every member of the park staff I have met has been energetic and dedicated but their numbers are few particularly at this season, and they need to know when to ask for and accept help. This state has many retired people who have been loggers or trail maintainers longer than most of the park staff have been alive. There are organized clubs such as
Trailwrights that specialize in trail work while it is only a sideline to most park rangers. Sure some of the lower trails may require heavy equipment to reopen, but even that has often been donated particularly for snowmobile trail work. With the park staff to provide direction and a couple of volunteer weekends, all of the upper mountain trails could have been opened long ago. I'm sure the lower trails suffered more and bigger deadfalls, but as I haven't been allowed to see them I'm not sure how long they might take. Yes, you can't do a perfect job with snow on the ground and some additional work will have to be done next spring, but what's the advantage to waiting?
So who cares whether the trails are open? Why not just close the whole park until summer when the blowdowns can be removed more easily or maybe for 50 years or so until they rot away? By the park's own logic, not removing blowdowns promptly will lead animals and trespassers to create paths around them, harming the park. The sooner they are removed, the better for the park. But most importantly, it's a matter of stewardship. Any park really belongs not to the state but to the people, and the state should not restrict access unnecessarily as it is by not accepting help to open trails faster.
I do have a little background for my statements. I used to maintain trails on Monadnock as a Boy Scout over 40 years ago. I was an LT/AT volunteer maintainer during the last big blowdown a decade ago, and got my section open without professionals or chain saws. My mother had a trail in the WMNF and we went up on snowshoes to clear it, so it was actually better that spring than most years when we didn't do a winter visit. There are many folk in this group who are more talented than myself and would have been happy to help at Monadnock if only they were allowed to.
Andrew
Active member
giggy- it packs the snow into & on top of the branches. If you have ever cleaned up trails in heavy snow you know how difficult it is.
Roy- they have been making use of volunteers. They just need to have someone who is intimately familiar with the trails with any volunteers. The snow is obscuring the treadway and even the most familiar person's there are having some trouble staying on track. With the heavy use you don't want to get off the currently impacted treadway and damage the precious remaining trail edge flora. Especially since any mistakes will only become apparent at the most sensitive time- snowmelt and spongy soils.
c'mon folks, it's only hiking at one place. I'm sure there are millions of people in the world who would love to trade with your desperate plight.
mookie
New member
Why not just close the entire park then? close off all the parking areas and there will be no problem, is that hard to do?
seems the best way to keep people off closed trails because you know not everyone wants to stay on white dot trail (or whatever is open).
seems the best way to keep people off closed trails because you know not everyone wants to stay on white dot trail (or whatever is open).
hardyb
Member
The staff at Monadnock State Park have to put up with enough crap through the busy summer and fall months, they don’t need the hassle of more inconsiderate so called hikers in winter, especially when they are trying to clean up from the ice storm. If you don’t like to follow the rules go somewhere else and let them do their job. Leave Monadnock to the hikers who truly care about it. Due to the volume of people (not all are hikers) that visit Monadnock through the year, there needs to be rules and they need to be obeyed. The Mountain would be destroyed very quickly if people were allowed to do whatever they wanted. 
